Petrol prices hit a new high

chris1973

Always public transport

Thats cool. Next time you need some building work doing, i'm sure the you'll be first to practice entirely what you preach and volunteer to bike / bus it around to the builders' house and help him onto the bus with his cement mixer, ladders and a few tons of bricks.

So why is it that...

(a) Lots of people seem to think public transport is the solution to all ills, and that everybody (who still actually HAS A JOB), goes off to do it in some cushy 9 - 5 office in a city, and who lives near to a tube or bus station and within walking distance of the local Starbucks. They seem to forget all of those tradespeople who make up a large percentage of the working population, rely on some form of transport to move their tools and materials around. But i'm sure next time you need your house rewiring or have your boiler serviced, you can take your house or boiler to the Electrician / Gas Engineer, on the bus. You certainly won't be calling them out will you?, I mean they use that nasty smelly fossil fuel to power their chelsea vans....

(b) Has been brainwashed by the tree hugging brigade into believing that just because they don't own a car, they are some kind of martyr to the rest of the bloody world, and that any increase in the cost of fuel filtering down to the transporting of goods they buy in the Shops or somebody providing a service in their home won't affect them....'cos they are special, dontc'ha know!

I really hope all of these self righteous 'Anti Car' brigade are leading by example, and everytime they are expecting a parcel to be delivered, they ring up the local Parcelforce / Carrier depot and tell them not to bring it in the van, they'll travel across a county or two on the bus to collect it from the Regional depot - in person. I also hope they carry home their Big Screen TV, Washing Machine and Fridge Freezer purchases on the bus too because doing anything less would be double standards.

In relation to Oil use, the biggest user of oil is manufacturing, specifically large scale Far East manufacturing. Tell me again, which country has just recently scrapped a perfectly good and working TV system and essentially forced its population to scrap their existing working televisions and set top boxes into landfill and to buy new TV systems, all made almost entirely from oil based plastic and made in the Far East???.

Strange, I didn't see much protesting on here when that was happening, i've just run a search and nope, nothing.

I have spent £96 on fuel stuffs and done 4000 miles

Hope you're not running that in a CRD engine otherwise you'll be looking at a big bill soon.

If they were running a common rail fuel system, the chances of them already running 4000 miles successfully without any damage or ill effects would be pretty silm don't you think????

A._Badger

Kohoutek wrote: »

If you think that disproves peak oil, then you don't understand peak oil..

Thank you for your concern. I do understand 'peak oil', I am also aware that I have been hearing the scare stories about the concept since I first encountered it, around 1963.

Kohoutek

A._Badger wrote: »

Thank you for your concern. I do understand 'peak oil', I am also aware that I have been hearing the scare stories about the concept since I first encountered it, around 1963.

Do you think the world will ever reach a peak of oil extraction, or just individual countries like the United States, United Kingdom, Norway, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Venezuela, Mexico, Nigeria, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia, Oman, Yemen, Libya, Yemen, Egypt, India....?

A._Badger

Kohoutek wrote: »

Do you think the world will ever reach a peak of oil extraction, or just individual countries like the United States, United Kingdom, Norway, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Venezuela, Mexico, Nigeria, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia, Oman, Yemen, Libya, Yemen, Egypt, India....?

What I know is that the subject is enormously complicated and that vast interests - national, commercial and political (in so far as there is a distinction to be made between political and the first two) - have dirty fingers on the balance, which make a clear judgement impossible.

I also know that science and technology are unpredictable and that some people suffer from a form of pseudo-Millenialism which predisposes them to catastrophise. It isn't in the latest DSM - but it should be.

As a consequence, I remain agnostic and am unlikely to be swayed by people who believe they can foretell the future with sufficient reliability that we should tear down society to accommodate their beliefs.

worried_jim

Snooze wrote: »

Hope you're not running that in a CRD engine otherwise you'll be looking at a big bill soon.

Of course not. 15 months on veg so far with no related bills.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

A._Badger wrote: »

some people suffer from a form of pseudo-Millenialism which predisposes them to catastrophise. It isn't in the latest DSM - but it should be.

You've just described 50% of the posters on here.

Snooze

chris1973 wrote: »

Thats cool. Next time you need some building work doing, i'm sure the you'll be first to practice entirely what you preach and volunteer to bike / bus it around to the builders' house and help him onto the bus with his cement mixer, ladders and a few tons of bricks.

So why is it that...

(a) Lots of people seem to think public transport is the solution to all ills, and that everybody (who still actually HAS A JOB), goes off to do it in some cushy 9 - 5 office in a city, and who lives near to a tube or bus station and within walking distance of the local Starbucks. They seem to forget all of those tradespeople who make up a large percentage of the working population, rely on some form of transport to move their tools and materials around. But i'm sure next time you need your house rewiring or have your boiler serviced, you can take your house or boiler to the Electrician / Gas Engineer, on the bus. You certainly won't be calling them out will you?, I mean they use that nasty smelly fossil fuel to power their chelsea vans....

(b) Has been brainwashed by the tree hugging brigade into believing that just because they don't own a car, they are some kind of martyr to the rest of the bloody world, and that any increase in the cost of fuel filtering down to the transporting of goods they buy in the Shops or somebody providing a service in their home won't affect them....'cos they are special, dontc'ha know!

I really hope all of these self righteous 'Anti Car' brigade are leading by example, and everytime they are expecting a parcel to be delivered, they ring up the local Parcelforce / Carrier depot and tell them not to bring it in the van, they'll travel across a county or two on the bus to collect it from the Regional depot - in person. I also hope they carry home their Big Screen TV, Washing Machine and Fridge Freezer purchases on the bus too because doing anything less would be double standards.

In relation to Oil use, the biggest user of oil is manufacturing, specifically large scale Far East manufacturing. Tell me again, which country has just recently scrapped a perfectly good and working TV system and essentially forced its population to scrap their existing working televisions and set top boxes into landfill and to buy new TV systems, all made almost entirely from oil based plastic and made in the Far East???.

Strange, I didn't see much protesting on here when that was happening, i've just run a search and nope, nothing.

If they were running a common rail fuel system, the chances of them already running 4000 miles successfully without any damage or ill effects would be pretty silm don't you think????

I was agreeing with all of your post until you got the last paragraph in reply to my comment on another post.

The fact they've done 4000 miles without a hitch doesn't mean damage is not being caused, and in fact had it been a CRD engine, there's a reasonable chance of it surviving that mileage before breaking. The bio diesel is not refined enough to be injected into the engine under high pressure, which is what the CRD engine does. As time goes on the fuel pump(s), injectors and nozzles get totally clogged up, closely followed by the EGR, inlet manifold and cylinders with all the carbon deposits from the poor quality burn.

chris1973

Thanks for the heads up, but I fully understand SVO / WVO and Biodiesel. Been using the stuff myself for several years and am a member of several ontopic forums. I also have been involved with the engine management side of the Bosch 'CR' Injection common rail system as used on most European models, and fully understand how they work, right down to fuel mapping and the actual software contained in the Flash side.

The simple fact is, most common rail systems have a pressure sensor upstream of the Injection Pump in order to monitor the pressure into the pump from the pre-supply pump, WVO / SVO is thicker than biodiesel / diesel and so the chances of the pre-supply pump maintaining the pressure (usually around 4 bar) that the ECU expects to 'see' on the injection side is unlikely in the long term - certainly not 4000 miles without triggering at least an error code - there is also an additional 2nd pressure sensor on the actual common rail also, which will shut down if the injection pump is struggling to maintain the output pressure expected.

Some common rail systems even have 'fuel quality' sensors which will prevent the car from even starting on Oil - although well made biodiesel is okay, provided its not full of soap / meth

Even if the injection pump survives the initial SVO / WVO use, its unlikely that the restriction of flow due to the thicker liquid, especially during winter will maintain 4 bar, and so the ECU will simply shut down. In the same way as it would if the in-tank / pre-supply pump failed.

To say that all common rail engines will not run on SVO / WVO is also a myth, whilst the majority of new ones won't - Many Alfa-Romeo owners have run their early JTD engines on oil, for many years, since as early as2001, and can be witnessed if you search their owners forums.

Of course, even in light of this information - running SVO / WVO is not to be encouraged on any Common Rail vehicle, and other than VAG group early - mid TDI's, it shouldn't be run in a direct injection one either without a twin tank system, due to the risk of ring gumming.

In relation to Biodiesel, i've run a BMW 320D on B100 for 21,000 miles so far with no issues or error codes (I have BMW DIS / GT1 factory level diagnostics). There are several members on the Australian Biofuels forums running 330D's and Audi PD engines on B100 also. So whilst veg is a no-no for common rail, well made biodiesel is almost as compatible as diesel, provided there is no DPF on the vehicle.

mbga9pgf

Chris, out of interest, what is the pressure output at the tip of the injector on a typical common rail? are we talking hundreds or thousands of PSI here?

Snooze

chris1973 wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up, but I fully understand SVO / WVO and Biodiesel. Been making and using the stuff myself for several years and am a member of several ontopic forums. I also have been involved with the engine management side of the Bosch 'CR' Injection common rail system as used on most European models, and fully understand how they work, right down to fuel mapping and the actual software contained in the Flash side.

The simple fact is, most common rail systems have a pressure sensor upstream of the Injection Pump in order to monitor the pressure into the pump from the pre-supply pump, WVO / SVO is thicker than biodiesel / diesel and so the chances of the pre-supply pump maintaining the pressure (usually around 4 bar) that the ECU expects to 'see' on the injection side is unlikely in the long term - certainly not 4000 miles without triggering at least an error code - there is also an additional 2nd pressure sensor on the actual common rail also, which will shut down if the injection pump is struggling to maintain the output pressure expected.

Some common rail systems even have 'fuel quality' sensors which will prevent the car from even starting on Oil - although well made biodiesel is okay, provided its not full of soap / meth

Even if the injection pump survives the initial SVO / WVO use, its unlikely that the restriction of flow due to the thicker liquid, especially during winter will maintain 4 bar, and so the ECU will simply shut down. In the same way as it would if the in-tank / pre-supply pump failed.

To say that all common rail engines will not run on SVO / WVO is also a myth, whilst the majority of new ones won't - Many Alfa-Romeo owners have run their early JTD engines on oil, for many years, since as early as2001, and can be witnessed if you search their owners forums.

Of course, even in light of this information - running SVO / WVO is not to be encouraged on any Common Rail vehicle, and other than VAG group early - mid TDI's, it shouldn't be run in a direct injection one either without a twin tank system, due to the risk of ring gumming.

In relation to Biodiesel, i've run a BMW 320D on B100 for 21,000 miles so far with no issues or error codes (I have BMW DIS / GT1 factory level diagnostics). There are several members on the Australian Biofuels forums running 330D's and Audi PD engines on B100 also. So whilst veg is a no-no for common rail, well made biodiesel is almost as compatible as diesel, provided there is no DPF on the vehicle.

Once again, I agree with all that except your final comment. The fact you've said not to use it on DPF equipped vehicles is proof that it's bad for the engine. If it burned properly in the first place then the DPF wouldn't get clogged up and require several round trips to Scotland to "regen" and clear out. The fact is the veg oil / bio derv doesn't burn properly. In fact neither does "proper" standard forecourt diesel for that matter either (no doubt due to the bio diesel content in it). You only need to take a look at the EGR and the inlet manifold in particular to see this.

I run my 330d on V-Power diesel and have done for the past 55k (114k on the clock). The inside of the EGR and inlet manifold are pretty much clean as a whistle which is quite impressive on its own, but even more impressive when one considers most of my journeys are short and sat in traffic.

21k on bio diesel is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Unless you are doing mega miles every week to keep it blown through, I can virtually guarantee you'll have coking issues before long.