Student Loans 2012

angelofmel

setmefree2 wrote: »

We have a good relationship with our kids re money. In fact, I think we talk about it too much! My eldest is currently doing an AS level in Economics and likes talking about money too. My youngest is like a mini version of Alan Sugar....

...... now we just have to keep them away from the student bar! Any tips?

haha well if they're as serious as you say they are about working thier best for a decent degree, the sheer work load alone will keep them away for the most part! the post-essay deadline night out is the best though!

anyway, im pleased that you seem at least awares that students are not always truthfull about what it is they are spending thier money on! i hope you will encourage your kids to get a job at uni also? i know its not the best thing to have to be doing when you want a decent degree but sadly degrees mean near squat in enployment terms, but showing you can work and study and/or take part in societies or extra curriucular things whilst at uni is a great boost to the ol' CV

setmefree2

The_One_Who wrote: »

The university isn't responsible for an adult's choices to drink. No one is forcing the student to drink alcohol, in fact one student bar here provided free soft drinks. The university isn't "turning" anyone into an alcoholic, and neither are the numerous bars, clubs and off-licences that surround university campuses.

This is from the Lancet - bit old maybe. I'll see if I can find something more current.

Alcohol and drug use in UK university students


Findings

11% of the students were non-drinkers. Among drinkers, 61% of the men and 48% of the women exceeded “sensible” limits of 1 4 units per week for women and 21 for men. Hazardous drinking (3=36 units per week for women, 3=51 for men) was reported by 15% of the drinkers. Binge drinking was declared by 28% of drinkers. 60% of the men and 55% of the women reported having used cannabis once or twice and 20% of the sample reported regular cannabis use (weekly or more often). Experience with other illicit drugs was reported by 33% of the sample, most commonly LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide), amphetamines, Ecstasy (methylenedioxymethamphetamine), and amyl/butyl nitrate which had each been used by 13—18% of students. 34% of these had used several drugs. Drug use had started at school in 46% of the sample; 13% began after entering university. The overwhelming reason given for taking alcohol or drugs was pleasure. Subjective ratings of anxiety on the hospital anxiety depression scale were high, and sleep difficulties were common, but neither related to alcohol or drug use.

Interpretation

There is a need for better education about alcohol, drugs, and general health in universities. Such education should include all faculties. It remains unclear whether university students' lifestyles are carried over into later life.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2896%2903410-1/abstract

setmefree2

The_One_Who wrote: »

The university isn't responsible for an adult's choices to drink. No one is forcing the student to drink alcohol, in fact one student bar here provided free soft drinks. The university isn't "turning" anyone into an alcoholic, and neither are the numerous bars, clubs and off-licences that surround university campuses.

And if Unis don' care about their students' health, they should care about this:-

Alcohol related social norm perceptions in university students:
a review of effective interventions for change

[EMAIL="bjohn1@glam.ac.uk"]Dr Bev John[/EMAIL], Reader in Psychology, University of Glamorgan
[EMAIL="talwyn@uwic.ac.uk"]Dr Tina Alwyn[/EMAIL], Reader in Psychology, University of Wales Institute Cardiff

INTRODUCTION

There is growing recognition that students’ alcohol consumption is impacting on many aspects of university life, such as health, attrition rates and academic achievement. In the U.K, around 50% of young people now attend university and thus become exposed to this high alcohol consuming culture. Recent trends suggest that excessive drinking patterns that begin during student years are now continuing throughout adulthood (e.g. Newbury-Birch et al, 2002). Further evidence to this effect comes from liver experts reporting worrying changes in the age of onset of alcohol related liver disease (Smith et al, 2006). A recent survey conducted by the current researchers suggests that consumption levels are probably significantly underestimated in many studies, with 88% of students drinking 6 or more units on any one occasion, with an average of 20 for males, and 17 for females (John & Alwyn, 2009).

http://www.aerc.org.uk/insightPages/libraryIns0072.html


There is plenty more like that if you're not convinced there is a problem. Parents are not really thrilled to send our kids off to Uni and have them come back as drunks with liver disease, maybe that comes as a surprise to you?

setmefree2

The_One_Who wrote: »

The university isn't responsible for an adult's choices to drink. No one is forcing the student to drink alcohol, in fact one student bar here provided free soft drinks. The university isn't "turning" anyone into an alcoholic, and neither are the numerous bars, clubs and off-licences that surround university campuses.

Alcohol Effect on Student Performance

As well as damaging their health, university students who drink too much alcohol may also be damaging their academic performance. This is the implication of findings to be presented today by researchers from Edge Hill University at the Annual Conference of the British Psychological Society in Dublin.[1]David Dutchman and Dr. Philip Murphy looked at a sample of 46 second year students with an average age 23.[2] They found that entrance qualifications and the students’ IQ predicted only 2% of the variation in marks obtained. However, when measures of alcohol consumption and other drug intake were included along side entrance qualifications and IQ, it became possible to predict 25% of this variation. Alcohol intake was by far the strongest predictor of academic success, with rising consumption levels leading to lower marks.

So you would wonder why Unis are happy to have campuses full of drunks?

http://www.edgehill.ac.uk/news/2008/04/alcohol-effect-on-student-performance

Oldernotwiser

I taught 16-19 year olds for many years and I have to say that most of them drank far more and far more regularly than I did at university. I don't think that students just begin drinking when they start degree level study and I don't think that university students necessarily drink more than other adults of the same age.

However, I agree with The One Who that universities can do little to stop the adultswho attend them from overindulging if they choose to do so. Surely, young people's attitudes to alcohol will have been formed by their parents and their home environment?

As a report from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation found recently,


"Family influence on young people’s drinking: an inconvenient truth?

Given the way tabloid headlines demonise young people for binge drinking, you'd be forgiven for thinking that they have a drinking culture entirely separate from adults. However, two new JRF studies looking at family life and alcohol suggest it’s all a bit more complicated than that.

The research focuses on ordinary families with primary school-aged children in England and Scotland. The findings tell us that home is the place where children learn about alcohol. And, even at an early age, young children have a pretty sophisticated understanding of alcohol and its effects which mostly comes from observing their parents or other adult relatives.

Among families who took part in the studies, alcohol was viewed not as something bad or hidden, but as a normal part of everyday life. Many parents felt happy to drink (but not to get drunk) in front of their children and wanted to teach them to drink moderately by example. Parents adopted a range of strategies, including allowing their children to try very small amounts of alcohol, mainly on special occasions, which they hoped would encourage them to drink responsibly in the future. These decisions were taken not on the basis of public health messages, but their own childhood experiences or personal beliefs.

The research suggests that parents mostly do a good job of conveying the social pleasures and risks of drinking and the message that alcohol should be consumed in moderation. But, of course, parents are not perfect. There were occasions where some parents drank to excess in front of their children (for example, on holiday or at parties) and there were gaps in what children learnt from home, such as the health risks of drinking and the potential risks of drinking outside of the home.

So, what should policy-makers do? Some would argue that this is good enough parenting and we should not demonise moderate drinking within families. Others would say that the influence of family is so strong, and levels of drinking among young people so worrying, that the state should intervene more with ordinary families to help prevent excessive alcohol use amongst young people. Examples might include providing advice and guidance for parents on talking to children about alcohol, or using parenting programmes to get positive messages across to parents and their children."

The_One_Who

setmefree2 wrote: »

There is plenty more like that if you're not convinced there is a problem. Parents are not really thrilled to send our kids off to Uni and have them come back as drunks with liver disease, maybe that comes as a surprise to you?

No one is saying that students don't drink, and some do drugs. It is not the university's responsibility to look after them. The university might run a bar, and they keep out the underagers, but that is it. What can the university do about all the bars and clubs that spring up around the university towns and cities? If a student wants to get drunk (and it is their choice) then they will.

On the subject of budgeting, there is a huge difference between doing something for your child and helping them with it. Or did you fill in all their homework for them too? I have worked at several graduations, for a few different institutions, and the number of parents I see trying to register their child is unbelievable. It really is staggering.

setmefree2

The_One_Who wrote: »

No one is saying that students don't drink, and some do drugs. It is not the university's responsibility to look after them. The university might run a bar, and they keep out the underagers, but that is it.

They can make sure that alcohol isn't sold too cheaply for a start.

Looks like the government is going to do something about that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12212240

Minimum alcohol price levels planned by coalition

A minimum price level for alcohol sold in shops and bars in England and Wales could be introduced for the first time.

Of course, Unis can ignore the fact that students are drinking too much. However, that doesn't change the fact that all the boozing is impacting students results. I would have thought that Unis do care about that?

Also, IMHO it's really bad for the UK internationally to have their Unis viewed not as centres of academic excellence but as a breeding ground for drunks.

setmefree2

The_One_Who wrote: »

On the subject of budgeting, there is a huge difference between doing something for your child and helping them with it.

This is a change of tune! Now you are advocating "helping them" before it was all "they should do it all themselves" "You shouldn't be helping them!".

setmefree2

The_One_Who wrote: »

Or did you fill in all their homework for them too? I have worked at several graduations, for a few different institutions, and the number of parents I see trying to register their child is unbelievable. It really is staggering.

Who "fills in" homework? What sort of school did you go to?

Why do parents register for graduation? I don't understand?

Anyway, I get it! You don't like parents and you don't like kids who are close to their parents!

setmefree2

By the way (you know who you are) - thanks for the PMs! They are really really helpful :money: and to anyone else who doesn't want their personal deatils on this thread, or just can't face running the gauntlet with Oldernotwiser, The One Who, and Melancholly send me a message! The one's I've had so far have been so supportive that it's restored my faith in humanity.