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Woodburning stove

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  • welda
    welda Posts: 600 Forumite
    OFFICIAL QUOTE FROM GAS SAFE REGISTER >



    In effect if you did gas work yourself and somehow the house went up in a big bang think of the fun you would have convincing the insurance company that you were as equally trained as a registered installer

    I hear you ABR, however, even I know where to draw the line depending on work to be done.

    When I changed from oil to NG I installed gas line to boiler house, I installed boiler, amended other copper pipe to suit new boiler, once this was complete, phone call to mate to commision and do a drop test, this was 2004, house still standing.

    Two year ago fitted new kitchen, to include all gas range cooker, had to re-route copper gas pipe to suit new cooker, including cooker hose. Did a drop test, all's well, house still standing.

    I was a coded welder, also on a commercial basis, I train and assess refridge personel brazing and soldering to their industry standard, I am certificated to do this work and, to reach the standards, I had to sit practical tests to prove I am competent to train and assess.

    Soft soldering copper is a simple task, however if is very important one knows and understands what is going on. Most importantly, competent to realise to walk away and call in the experts, for example, if my boiler ceased working tomorrow, I would do the simple tests as per manufactures product booklet, short of resetting reset button, I'd have to be calling in favours.

    :beer:
  • anotherbaldrick
    anotherbaldrick Posts: 2,335 Forumite
    edited 23 December 2010 at 9:12PM
    welda wrote: »
    I hear you ABR, however, even I know where to draw the line depending on work to be done.

    When I changed from oil to NG I installed gas line to boiler house, I installed boiler, amended other copper pipe to suit new boiler, once this was complete, phone call to mate to commision and do a drop test, this was 2004, house still standing.

    Two year ago fitted new kitchen, to include all gas range cooker, had to re-route copper gas pipe to suit new cooker, including cooker hose. Did a drop test, all's well, house still standing.

    I was a coded welder, also on a commercial basis, I train and assess refridge personel brazing and soldering to their industry standard, I am certificated to do this work and, to reach the standards, I had to sit practical tests to prove I am competent to train and assess.

    Soft soldering copper is a simple task, however if is very important one knows and understands what is going on. Most importantly, competent to realise to walk away and call in the experts, for example, if my boiler ceased working tomorrow, I would do the simple tests as per manufactures product booklet, short of resetting reset button, I'd have to be calling in favours.

    :beer:


    I know what is involved Welda. I was indentured as a plumber / gas fitter 60 years ago, served a 5 year apprenticeship got my City and Guilds ( 1st Class) and Full Tech certificate worked as a journeyman craftsman with a major contractor. Became a full member of the Institute of Plumbing (Registered Plumbers as it was originally) , Royal Society of Health and Certified Engineer. At a seriously advanced age I still do all my work on the house including electrics and recent roof renovation but the one thing I don't b****r about with is the GAS. The hassle it could lead to if something unconnected with the work done went wrong it's not worth it.
    My main reason for saying this is that I believe it dangerous to encourage any gas work be done on a DIY basis . As a Consulting Engineer I have been called on in a professional capacity to survey and report on installations and this has given me a very jaundiced view of the ability of many who would call themselves competent and in their own minds were doing wonderful jobs. To just say a competent person can do it is as good as saying to some unwary souls that IF YOU THINK YOU ARE COMPETENT GO AHEAD AND DO IT. What we should be saying is Don't touch the gas yourself unless you are sure you can convince an independent inspector of your being adequately competent because you might have to.
    You scullion! You rampallian! You fustilarian! I’ll tickle your catastrophe (Henry IV part 2)
  • welda
    welda Posts: 600 Forumite
    ABR, we're of similar ilk when it comes to various hands on work and, I totaly understand where your coming from. It is also important people like yourself with your long wealth of knowledge highlight the points you have raised.

    I feel comfortable doing what I have done at home in the past. Running gas lines ect is not something I do every day, although this is irrelevent.

    Where as you have stated your reasons for not being comfortable working with gas.

    You could take this subject to other levels, car is one example, I've owned boats, both the latter two are potential killers if something goes wrong with diy work.

    One of these topics that can grow arms and legs.

    Have a Merry Christmas.

    :beer:
  • Crafty_Toots
    Crafty_Toots Posts: 876 Forumite
    edited 27 January 2011 at 8:18PM
    . But how you would be that without being registered beggers the imagination.

    Quite! I guess that's why I thought you had to be registered. Ho hum!
    welda wrote: »
    I think you will find, if doing gas work for yourself is acceptable as long as work is being done by a COMPETENT person.

    You with Christies toots?

    :beer:

    No, I'm not with Christies.
    A._Badger wrote: »
    Unless I misundesrtood him (by no means impossible) HETAS member crphillips has at some point listed other organisations who can install a stove without an inspection by building control.

    If that isn't the case the situation is even worse than it seemed.

    I believe that if the installation is done by a HETAS registered fitter, then no building control inspection is required, as the assumption (!) is that it will comply as building regulations were followed if HETAS 'regulations' were followed. Only if the installation is done by someone not registered would building control need to be involved. That's my understanding anyway - not HETAS registered myself, but usually find I'm the one trawling the books to check up on requirements, that's if I can make head or tail of them, they're a bit like gobbleydegook sometimes!

    Toots x
    PROUD SUPPORTER OF THE DRIBBLERS!
    £97 / £11,000
  • welda
    welda Posts: 600 Forumite
    edited 24 December 2010 at 6:46PM
    My main reason for saying this is that I believe it dangerous to encourage any gas work be done on a DIY basis . As a Consulting Engineer I have been called on in a professional capacity to survey and report on installations and this has given me a very jaundiced view of the ability of many who would call themselves competent and in their own minds were doing wonderful jobs. To just say a competent person can do it is as good as saying to some unwary souls that IF YOU THINK YOU ARE COMPETENT GO AHEAD AND DO IT. What we should be saying is Don't touch the gas yourself unless you are sure you can convince an independent inspector of your being adequately competent because you might have to.

    Evening ABR, I'm sure you read my points where I test work I have done for gas tightness (cooker). I did boiler install, BUT had install checked and commissioned prior to firing up.

    One main reason I can turn my hand to various tasks successfully is due to past experiences many years ago. You get a trademans in, he/she does a hellish job and, the worst part is, they want an hourly rate that you would expect to pay for an expert legal mind for one example. So in essence, some tradesmen/woman are victims of there own greed. Is it any wonder the public take on various tasks themselves.

    When I've been doing any gas work in the past, I make sure I am 200% safe. I'm hardly going to rush, or cut corners when I know I myself may suffer for shoddy work, some trades don't care, in>out> gimme the cash attitude.

    On an Ad-Hoc basis I sometimes do a little consultancy too, not the first time I have seen guys I know butt and shut 4" dia HW or steam pipe, when through time, the likely hood of a butt and shut joint failing is high due to expansion and contraction, I've actually trained some of these pipe welders, why do they do it? £££££££££££££££'s, more bonus if preppping pipe is avoided, and we call them tradespeople!!

    Once again I know exactly where you are coming from, I've knocked out a few workshop/garden wood stoves from redundant gas bottles (lpg or calor type) I'm often asked by folks who want to do the same themselves, once I have given an indepth talk on what is involved, they normally shy away, especially when one mentions high risk of death if procedures are not followed.

    You understandably have very strong views when it comes to diy, in this case, diy on NG pipe or appliances. Unfortunately you are always going to have people who take on tasks that are way beyond them, instead of ceasing if they hit a problem, they can end up digging a deeper hole, as I stated a couples of times in this thread, competence is also about walking away to call in an expert in what ever field diy work is being done.

    If diy gas work is to be avoided by people like me, then perhaps it is time pressure is put on the big DIY stores to stop selling various commodities to the public, you're well aware anyone can walk into various stores and walk out with gas appliances, with a view to install themselves, same can be said regarding M/F stoves, I bought all the stuff I required to install myself, this was nearly three year ago, house still standing!

    Nuff said,

    Have a merry christmas and happy new year.

    :beer:
  • A._Badger
    A._Badger Posts: 5,881 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    welda wrote: »
    One main reason I can turn my hand to various tasks successfully is due to past experiences many years ago. You get a trademans in, he/she does a hellish job and, the worst part is, they want an hourly rate that you would expect to pay for an expert legal mind for one example. So in essence, some tradesmen/woman are victims of there own greed. Is it any wonder the public take on various tasks themselves.

    When I moved into my current house I had a registered LPG gas installer fit my new LPG cooker, from scratch.

    After a couple of years, during which I'd thought I'd been using a lot of gas, I had another company look at it when the self-activating changeover system failed.

    The second fitter turned a bit green and pointed to where the first fitter had used what he described as plumbing parts on a gas fitting.

    It had been leaking, slowly, all the time, he claimed.

    When I told him who had done the original job, he just laughed and nodded.

    So much for registration schemes.
  • hethmar
    hethmar Posts: 10,678 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker Car Insurance Carver!
    suki1964 wrote: »
    That doesn't even begger an answer

    But hey - you got your post count up and a big thank you from one stove fitter to another :D

    There wasnt a question to answer Suki???

    And unlike you, my post count isnt the be all of my existence. How would recommending sweeping benefit me in any way? As you have pointed out, you are in NI, so its not like I or CR are going to make £35 out of you? (we dont actually offer a sweep service anyway).

    Surely you arent so bloody minded you dont concede that its common sense to avoid a chimney fire and possibly structural damage by sweeping regularly? Very strange attitude.

    If your customers never sweep their flues then they are literally playing with fire - or carbon monoxide.

    Buy hey, who cares - you obviously dont.
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