no building regs

Jenniefour

OP - seems this was marketed as a two bed house - the evidence you cite seems to support this. If you want a three bed house then you have two options - get out a find a three bed house or find out if the attic can be converted to a bedroom i.e. habitable space. The way to do this is to get over the building regs people and go through it with them, or instruct a good surveyor to take a close look at this, instruct them that's their job. I would go for building regs. I wouldn't personally ask a builder to look - they are, after all, looking for work and you have no comeback against them for an initial qualified opinion - get one over after you have had the building regs people over - if you think you want to go ahead with the purchase and convert the attic.

Something that is advertised as a 'loft conversion' means that the former loft/attic has had all the necessary planning permissions/building regs to deem it proper habitable space i.e living space, and that it meets all the criteria the building regs require, which includes safety. So the attic/loft in the house you are considering is not a conversion - it is simply a superior attic/loft which the owners are using for living space, their choice and their risk - very important distinction indeed - as other posters have pointed out if it had been a conversion, as the term is correctly and commonly understood, then you would have been paying a lot more for the property. The difference between a two bed and a three bed - which will be considerable.

I imagine that no such words as 'attic/loft conversion' appeared at any time on the sale details of the property - the dimmest estate agent knows this is a very important particular and would not put themselves into a postion where they include extremely misleading information. So I suggest you take a close look at the description. I doubt whether the word 'conversion' is included. However, not ruling out that you are dealing with a dim estate agent - but very unlikely !

As for possible structural problems caused by the alterations to make the attic into an attic with a few alterations it is very unlikely that this in itself has caused any structural problems to the house itself. Unless some idiotic DIY'er has been let loose, and they have removed key structural supports - again, not impossible, it happens. However, the way to check is to get building regs or surveyor down there.

Your posts seem to suggest that you are wanting a two bedder for the price of two - good for you for trying ! But, at the end of the day - unless the vendors and estate agent are exceptionally short of working brain cells - then you are attempting to present arguments that hold no water at all - not a drop. So, you are back to the very simple decision - do you want to find out whether it is feasible to convert that attic - which will cost quite a bit of money - if so get those folks in to have a good look and advise you, including cost. If not, find somewhere else.

Just for the record - and not specific to this particular situation - a full structural survey on a house is money well spent - as other posters on here have found, not having one can cost a good deal more than the few hundred pounds for the survey.

And take note of Catblue's useful post - I am simply spelling out what Catblue has said because you have come back with some more queries.

Good luck !

strobo

I'd be tempted to have a quick look at the local council's planning website (or even pop into the planning office), and see if any identical houses in the area have had work done to their lofts that has required full planning permission (as opposed to just Building Regs).

This information is freely available, and if any applications you find carry enough details, you might just find out whether things like new joists were used. I know it's far from definitive, but might at least give you something to go at.

Catatonia

Good post, Jennie.

To be fair though, I think a lot of EAs use misleading phrasing when talking about these kinds of lofts. I'm sure I've seen places described as loft conversion when there's no building regs.

Or this one, where it says 'loft area' and only listed as two bed but the loft is then described on the floor plan as bedroom/ family room. This loft has no building regs (it's a property I viewed).

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-17468025.html

Or this, which doesn't have a misleading description so much (although I think loft rooms without building regs should be clearly described as such as not everyone knows they are essentially inhabitable) but where they are asking for a 30k premium over other three bed semis in the area:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-17432673.html

Chippet

Hi Jenniefour, thankyou for your post

Jenniefour wrote: »

I imagine that no such words as 'attic/loft conversion' appeared at any time on the sale details of the property - the dimmest estate agent knows this is a very important particular and would not put themselves into a postion where they include extremely misleading information. So I suggest you take a close look at the description. I doubt whether the word 'conversion' is included. However, not ruling out that you are dealing with a dim estate agent - but very unlikely !

I have just looked on right move and it states (and this is copied and pasted directly): "three bedroom terraced property" It says this twice, once in the 'heading' and the first line of the description. And in the description the loft is referred to as 'Attic Room'

Jenniefour wrote: »

As for possible structural problems caused by the alterations to make the attic into an attic with a few alterations it is very unlikely that this in itself has caused any structural problems to the house itself. Unless some idiotic DIY'er has been let loose, and they have removed key structural supports - again, not impossible, it happens. However, the way to check is to get building regs or surveyor down there.

Thankyou, this is basically all i wanted to hear, that a full structural survey may be some use.

Jenniefour wrote: »

Your posts seem to suggest that you are wanting a two bedder for the price of two - good for you for trying !

I assume you mean three bed for two bed money.... I'm really confused as to what i have said which is making people think this, sorry! :huh: The only time i discussed number of rooms and advertising was in answer to a question somebody else asked. Please can you tell me what it was i said??

Thankyou

Jenniefour

Catatonia wrote: »

Good post, Jennie.

To be fair though, I think a lot of EAs use misleading phrasing when talking about these kinds of lofts. I'm sure I've seen places described as loft conversion when there's no building regs.

Or this one, where it says 'loft area' and only listed as two bed but the loft is then described on the floor plan as bedroom/ family room. This loft has no building regs (it's a property I viewed).

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-17468025.html

Or this, which doesn't have a misleading description so much (although I think loft rooms without building regs should be clearly described as such as not everyone knows they are essentially inhabitable) but where they are asking for a 30k premium over other three bed semis in the area:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-17432673.html

Yes, confusing isn't it - what I was trying to say was that if the words 'loft/attic conversion' are not used, then however else an altered attic/loft space is described most likely means it is not a conversion so does not comply with planning/building regs.

I don't believe agents are being deliberately misleading - after all lots of folks do alter their attic spaces and use them as bedrooms and so on - the agents are not reponsible for what people do with their properties but, on the other hand, the agents must attempt to describe these altered spaces because viewers will notice ! Possibly what's important for agents in this situation is not using the magic words 'attic/loft conversion' - because it is correctly understood as a properly converted and compliant with regs.

And there will always be folks who insist on marketing their property at, shall we say, an aspirational price!

I think, given the importance of accurate wording - and it is very pernickety - both the above properties are described accurately.

Jenniefour

Chippet wrote: »

Hi Jenniefour, thankyou for your post



I have just looked on right move and it states (and this is copied and pasted directly): "three bedroom terraced property" It says this twice, once in the 'heading' and the first line of the description. And in the description the loft is referred to as 'Attic Room'

Thankyou

Sorry, my mistake - I thought it had been descibed as a two bed property. The agent needs to be more careful in future, that is defintely misleading.

Referring to loft as 'attic room' is fine - it's the words attic conversion that imply that it is complaint with regs and all work required to meet standards has been carried out.