Nice people thread part 3- Nice as pie

michaels

Congrats, must be the excellent genes you have endowed him with.

A question, do you think those who are really pleased that their child has won are generally more successful career wise than those who are really pleased that their child tried their best and had a good time?

Generali wrote: »

Exciting news on the home front. The 6y/o Generalissimo has been at tennis camp all week and won (I think) his age group award. I'm a very pround Generali and he's a very chuffed Generalissimo.

LydiaJ

michaels wrote: »

Congrats, must be the excellent genes you have endowed him with.

A question, do you think those who are really pleased that their child has won are generally more successful career wise than those who are really pleased that their child tried their best and had a good time?

Answering a slightly different, but related question:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13128701

Generali

michaels wrote: »

Congrats, must be the excellent genes you have endowed him with.

A question, do you think those who are really pleased that their child has won are generally more successful career wise than those who are really pleased that their child tried their best and had a good time?

I think parents look for reasons to be proud of their kids. If he hadn't won anything then I'd have been proud of him for not moaning because he came 4th or for being competitive and not being satisfied with coming 4th!

michaels

Yes, I saw that one and it really made me think. When I was at school you would get a report each year and for each subject you would get a grade for effort and a grade for performance. The top few in each class would get 'highly commended' or 'commended' for getting good grades or 'commended for effort' if they got good marks for effort but not top grades.

I always saw the latter as a real insult, you had tried really hard and still not succeeded whereas I always hoped to get highly commended without maxing out the effort marks as this seemed like showing I could be brilliant without even trying.

But reading the article makes me think, may be those who always try hard may feel they have reached their potential and be happy with their lives whereas those who do well but don't have such a work ethic may always be thinking perhaps they could/should have done more? the flip side is others who are always driven to do their best, never make allowances for the fact they are human and are never happy. There must be a balance somewhere.

LydiaJ wrote: »

Answering a slightly different, but related question:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13128701

vivatifosi

The whole try hard thing is interesting. The library is heaving with students at the moment because uni students are home revising, college students are there anyway and now we have the school students coming in too. The really dilligent ones get there about midday and then work right through to closing time (which is quite late). What saddens me most is that the schoolkids are mostly from ethnic minorities. I'm pleased for them, there's one group of British Bangladeshi students who push so hard you can't but hope that the world will truly be their oyster, they'll really work for it.

But where are the white kids from the big council estates? You just don't or rarely see them yet I know they are the majority demographic. I grew up on a council estate and my parents never saw uni as something for me. They barely went to school themselves even though they are both very bright. It wasn't that I wasn't loved, they just saw me as someone who could do a good job and be happy with clerical work (well it is for girls). I had to go on to get my degree and masters as a mature students. My cousin lives on one of the big estates. She's a teacher and is saving up hard to get another house because she's very concerned at the example her daughter is being set by parents at the school who don't even try with their kids. It starts at five. Some kids can read when they get to school, others can't. Parents turn up at the school gates in pyjamas.

The self motivated ones will realise its something that they can grasp and get on with, but many others start slipping back, even that early. I'm white, I'm working class background, my friends and I were all motivated and got out, but its becoming like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Very sad.

Generali

vivatifosi wrote: »

Some kids can read when they get to school, others can't. Parents turn up at the school gates in pyjamas.

The self motivated ones will realise its something that they can grasp and get on with, but many others start slipping back, even that early. I'm white, I'm working class background, my friends and I were all motivated and got out, but its becoming like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Very sad.

When I was living in Western Sydney (to generali-ise the crappy bit) people used to go to the supermarket in their pyjamas!

You see the same thing over here. Asian kids dominate the universities and the majority of accountants and fund accountants at work have parents are from Asia. They're out-competing the white kids that lived in the same areas as them (Western and South Western Sydney) for the most part. I can only think of 1 white bloke at work from a 'working class' background in Western Sydney that I work with.

Davesnave

When I was teaching, I used to give stars for effort; ten stars earned and a certificate went home to the parents.

It took time to get through to the kids what this effort stuff was all about, as opposed to ability, of which they were well aware. They'd compare their work and my star awarding, often deciding it wasn't 'fair.' I'm not God, so probably it wasn't. I'd reply, "It's my opinion only, but I think I know who's trying and who's just getting by."

I had a few parents ask me to give their little Johnny a few 'extra' stars for encouragement. I wasn't too impressed with that, and I'd indicate as much, unless the child had real issues.

By the end of the year, everyone had had at least one certificate, and most kids understood that effort & ability could be judged separately, even if I wasn't God and might not always get it right. I'm not certain though, that some didn't feel there was an element of favouritism involved, especially if it was more comfortable to think like that!

lostinrates

michaels wrote: »

the flip side is others who are always driven to do their best, never make allowances for the fact they are human and are never happy. There must be a balance somewhere.

I think that's why I'm still alive!

Similarly, y mother suffered a spinal injury when I was a child, she was told she'd never walk again....she sure showed them.

I think ''driving dis-satisfaction'' is something nurture instills pretty hard. I think from my mother's side its been instilled over the years from at least the pioneer generation.

FWIW its crippling in someways. If you know you can't do something well it can be a disincentive to try, or, my favourite used to be....master or understand how to aster something and then feel understimulated by it and want to do something else new.

purch

When I was teaching, I used to give stars for effort; ten stars earned and a certificate went home to the parents

That must be the way Gordon Brown got his jobs as Chancellor and PM :eek:

SingleSue

We rarely go to the library, going for the home grown studying and teaching instead...I was pretty much the same when I was younger, prefering to own the books and be able to study when I wanted to, rather than borrowing them/sit in the library at the times they chose to open.

I think that is where my love of books came from, my thirst for knowledge..the act of buying a book and being able to learn from it.

I am one who is never satisfied with what I know, I always have to better myself, always have to have more knowledge, always have to do better than I have before. Again, when younger, I had always been very driven, almost single minded ambition to reach the top but when I got there, I still wasn't happy, I still wanted more, felt I could still make improvements in my performance.

I have done the same with my parenting, I just couldn't accept what the specialists were saying about the boys and their future abilities, so set out to prove them wrong....and I have.