T-Mobile; another huge bill due to thievery

wantmemoney

the networks do have mechanisms in place to flag abnormal call traffic

yes the call minutes are recorded in real time but the bills between carriers are settled according to their agreed billing periods.

there are 'claw back' clauses in their contracts in cases of suspected fraudulent traffic.

several years (~2004?) the networks successfully lobbied the government for their customers accounts to be exempt from the FSA regulations that credit/debit cards are subject to......why?

the result of being exempt from the FSA Regulations:

its now a criminal offence to steal a phone but criminal fraud against the account does not have to be reported to the police by the networks.

also it means the money from these frauds are not covered by the Proceeds of Crime Act and can be happily pocketed by all.

Guys_Dad

The remedy is in anyone's hands. Set the security code on the phone so that it needs to be entered before using the phone. And, of course, set a pin code on the sim too. That's easy.

The first is a pain in the bum? Yes of course, but in giving that option, the phone makers and networks have supplied the option but people choose not to use it.

JJ_Egan

I remember many years ago in the motor trade when selling new cars instructions came down the line from GM after a successful court case in the USA handing over the car we had to point out .

The Brakes The One In The Middle .

Seems a lot of todays users of tech stuff just want the bling aspect and fail to understand what they are buying and at what cost .

jje

gjchester

imaginarynumber wrote: »

What is so wrong with them phoning the handset? All they need to do is have an automated message saying that the customer needs to phone the customer services to re-enable calls to the country/service in question.

And the first time this goes wrong and locks out a Kid who needs to call mum for a lift home it will get pulled or face a Daily Mail Nowtrage over the evil teleco's.

What if the person with the handset is ill and needs those calls making and can't answer the phone and clear security

Or what about corporate contracts who do spend millions a year on calls, they'll opt out or move to another network. We have people at work who travel a lot abroad and easily top £200 a month on a phone. For a business man they use a mobiel first and foremost no matter where they are in the world.

Sorry but you can't expect technology to solve a problem that is so easily remedied with a pin and caution

imaginarynumber

Evidently I am swimming against the current here.

gjchester wrote: »

Sorry but you can't expect technology to solve a problem that is so easily remedied with a pin and caution

err.... technology has enabled pins to be cracked quite easily.

So in the event that someone breaks in and steals my phone whilst I am asleep, I am rightly liable for the calls run up before I notice and phone T-Mobile???

So lets say an hour to crack my pin and that I am asleep for 8 hours, that's 420 minutes at £2.00p minute to a premium rate number, totalling £840 that I am justifiably liable for given that I didn't exercise sufficient caution...

gjchester

imaginarynumber wrote: »

Evidently I am swimming against the current here.

Yes and no. I can fully understand why you propose a better idea, it's just so open to abuse it would never happen. People could run up a huge bill then claijm the phone was stolen to avoid paying it.

imaginarynumber wrote: »

So in the event that someone breaks in and steals my phone whilst I am asleep, I am rightly liable for the calls run up before I notice and phone T-Mobile???

So lets say an hour to crack my pin and that I am asleep for 8 hours, that's 420 minutes at £2.00p minute to a premium rate number, totalling £840 that I am justifiably liable for given that I didn't exercise sufficient caution...

Drunk and falling asleep on a train is more likely in most cases.

You assume corectly, but lets assume you locked your doors, and you'd most likely have household insurance. However most theves won't try and crack the pin they'll just sell the handset on and move on. We are talking about opertunists here, not hardened technically capable criminals. If the phone won't work they'll shift it on and nick another. The idea isn't to make youir phone impossible to steal it's to make someone elses more a target.

Look at the car industry, for years car security was a joke, so the manufacturers beefed it up with deadlocks, immobilisers, lojacks and alarms. Has it made the cars more secure, certainly, has it affected car theft, not greatly, the only difference is now someone will break in to your house to get you keys. It's not changed tthe theft, the car still goes, just how it's done. You could say I'd rather the car was nicked than someone in the house with a knife after my keys (mind you I have a 10 year old Fiat...)

wantmemoney

personal opinions are opinions.

would somebody please link to the specific UK Law(s) that T-Mobile would use to argue their case in court to justify their claim.

eranou

wantmemoney wrote: »

personal opinions are opinions.

would somebody please link to the specific UK Law(s) that T-Mobile would use to argue their case in court to justify their claim.

I dont think there is a specific law to this. would it not be down to the judge to decide if t-mobile were at fault?

You could also use the question how can the customer provide solid evidence that they did not make the calls themselfs or give the phone to a friend to use?

Wintermute

imaginarynumber wrote: »

So in the event that someone breaks in and steals my phone whilst I am asleep, I am rightly liable for the calls run up before I notice and phone T-Mobile???

So lets say an hour to crack my pin and that I am asleep for 8 hours, that's 420 minutes at £2.00p minute to a premium rate number, totalling £840 that I am justifiably liable for given that I didn't exercise sufficient caution...

Yup, pretty much!

Your hypothetical situation's never going to happen, people steal phones for the handset value, people not protecting them or barring them is just a bonus. Cracking the SIM card PIN is very difficult; 3 failed attempts and you're locked out, then 10 with the PUK and then I think it's another 10 with the PUK2 then you need a new SIM card so brute forcing is out. Nobody is going to go through that when it could be a PAYG SIM or a barred SIM. Stealing the handset then selling it on is far easier and less risky.

Wintermute

eranou wrote: »

You could also use the question how can the customer provide solid evidence that they did not make the calls themselfs or give the phone to a friend to use?

The latter happens all the time, people let friends make "a quick phone call" only to find out they've dialled premium rate numbers, international numbers and often run up quite a large bill.... That or people just don't want to look stupid and blame it on "a friend"