Voltage harmoniser ????

espresso

almillar wrote: »

15% saving on an incandescent bulb? Anyone wanting to save energy would've fitted a fluorescent to save around 75%, which with the electronics inside, wouldn't save much on the lower voltage.
Kettle, washing machine, fridge, freezer, hob, oven all have to work harder, for longer, to do the same amount of work. No thanks.

The typical quoted saving for CFL lighting is 11%.

Yes a kettle may take a few more seconds to boil and the washing machine would no doubt take a little longer to complete the cycle but it would cost less.

Appliances with motors save the most e.g. 16% - this applies to fridges and freezers.

The hob and oven circuit would not be connected to the device at the consumer unit, so would be unaffected.

fwor

espresso wrote: »

Yes a kettle may take a few more seconds to boil and the washing machine would no doubt take a little longer to complete the cycle but it would cost less.

I seldom find anything to disagree with in your posts, espresso, but this I do. Boiling a kettle will take a little longer, and a washing machine will take a little longer to heat the water, but in both those examples, the total power used (to get to a given temperature) will be exactly the same.

So you will save nothing in those two examples - and will possibly pay more, due to the fact that (as someone has already pointed out) the "harmoniser" cannot be 100% efficient.

I should add that, with the washing machine, you may however save something on the part of the power consumed by the electric motor, as opposed to the (typically larger) amount of power used by the heating element.

Fifer

And to achieve a 15% saving with incandescent lights, the light level provided would be lower which could be achieved far more economically by using a lower wattage lamp.

espresso

fwor wrote: »

I seldom find anything to disagree with in your posts, espresso, but this I do. Boiling a kettle will take a little longer, and a washing machine will take a little longer to heat the water, but in both those examples, the total power used (to get to a given temperature) will be exactly the same.

Agreed

So you will save nothing in those two examples - and will possibly pay more, due to the fact that (as someone has already pointed out) the "harmoniser" cannot be 100% efficient.

I should add that, with the washing machine, you may however save something on the part of the power consumed by the electric motor, as opposed to the (typically larger) amount of power used by the heating element.

So how much of say a 90 minute wash cycle is the heater actually in use? The majority of power is consumed by the motors for the tumble action, pumping out waste water and for spin drying.

These stabiliser may not be 100% efficient but the quoted typical savings results obviously take any small transformer inefficiencies into account. e.g. the overall saving is given.

I believe that these devices definitely do save on consumption and therefore electricity cost, however domestic users all tend to use electricity in different ways and therefore the payback time will vary for each user. e.g. a friend has a huge ornamental fish pond which has a pumped UV lamp filtration system and other pumps used for the waterfall etc. that are running 24/7/365.

It is difficult to estimate potential savings but all devices will operate to spec at 220V, therefore any voltage applied in excess of this simply adds to the running cost and reduces the long term life expectancy.

If you exclude heating, you would save on most other things and many of these things are on 24/7 even if they do not consume huge amounts of power - "every little helps" over a long time period. How much of a typical month consumption is used for heating? Think of all of the other electrical items in the home.

I too would like to see more trial results but after the initial outlay has been recovered say £300, then any saving made after that will be made year on year. I do not have a voltage optimiser but their use is widespread commercially because there are obvious savings to be had, even after the much higher installation cost is taken into account.

..............

Inactive

So they use 110 volt mains in the USA, obviously they must save 50% of power used.:rotfl::rotfl:

Try plugging a 240v item ( battery charger ) in to their mains, if it works it takes twice as long as a proper 110v item.

Avoriaz

fwor wrote: »

I seldom find anything to disagree with in your posts, espresso, but this I do. Boiling a kettle will take a little longer, and a washing machine will take a little longer to heat the water, but in both those examples, the total power used (to get to a given temperature) will be exactly the same….

It won’t be exactly the same. The total power used will actually be slightly more.

When a kettle is used to boil water the kettle itself heats up. Some of that heat is lost to the air surrounding the kettle. If it takes 3 minutes to boil at 230 volts and 3 minutes 10 seconds to boil at 220 volts, that is an extra 10 seconds of heat loss to the surrounding air.

The actual calculation is very complex as the rate of heat loss will be different but the net effect is that it must take more power to boil the water more slowly.

Reduce the voltage enough and the water will never boil as the heat loss matches the heat input.

Ditto any device such as washing machines etc that heat water.

Even if you use less power in the washing machine motor, might that not effect the washing efficiency as the drum turns more slowly?

At a guess I would say 80% plus of power use in a washing machine is heating the water so you need to save a hell of a lot in the motor to offset the extra heat losses.

I advise the OP and everyone else to forget these snake oil devices for domestic use.

Basil1234

these units save 9% power and cost £250 had on diy sos i looked into it some months back i like the figures 11% and 16% mentioned could someone proved links to equipment said cos i think tbh is fairy land also. i spend £35 pm on electricity saving £3.15 per month atm on 2 bed house so pay for the cost of unit alone will take 80 months only 6 and a bit years and thats without insulation costs.

thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2753806

found it actually was £270 so my figures are wrong above here is the thread on about my post at end with a link where to buy one!
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2705555

oh and here it is people can read product specs themselves
http://www.e-tradecounter.co.uk/p-1107-vx1-voltage-optimisation-and-management-4kw-device.aspx

espresso

Inactive wrote: »

So they use 110 volt mains in the USA, obviously they must save 50% of power used.:rotfl::rotfl:

Try plugging a 240v item ( battery charger ) in to their mains, if it works it takes twice as long as a proper 110v item.

I am amazed at your 'input' to this thread. You obviously don't understand the basic principle of voltage stabilisation!

Inactive

espresso wrote: »

I am amazed at your 'input' to this thread. You obviously don't understand the basic principle of voltage stabilisation!

That makes 2 of us, it seems.;)

espresso

Inactive wrote: »

That makes 2 of us, it seems.;)

So are you stating that if the UK domestic mains is reduced from a typical 242V down to 220V that there will no reduction in metered kWh consumption?

If that is your belief, can you please explain?

There are a few naysayers spouting their opinion that it's snake oil etc. but no evidence has been provided proving that it does not work. I assume that you are familiar with ohms law?

Your remark about 110v supply in the states is irrelevant to this discussion.