RPI to CPI Early Day Motion 1032

teacher_retired

MEY wrote: »

Old Slaphead
This thread was started to bring attention to EDM 1032 and encourage people to take action to write to their MPs. If someone doesn't wish to that's fine. If they philosophically oppose it, that too is fine. This is surely not a division vote though; ayes to right the right, no's to the left. It is presumably intended for those who will see the values of their pensions hit and by underhand means. Not the first or last time that will happen to folks, I'm sure.
Most of the straying off topic is caused by those arguing against 1032. You don't have to argue against it - just ignore it. The issue is simple and each time someone says they don't like it it launches another debate that potentially will point up differing economic view points which are so entrenched it just becomes a slanging match - completely detached from the thread's purpose.
As for RPI, you seem to have a faith in the law which you don't echo regards Equitable Life though. If only things were so straight forward lawyers would be broke!
When I talk of "real" inflation I talk of the increases in individuals costs and prices as opposed to the government inflation measures.
I know our views don't concur and am content with that but as your post suggests, you enjoy the argument even when there isn't one and help spin things off in a wider direction. You aren't alone, but you are the most persistent.
Public service pension arrangements are what they are. I wonder why it is only these past few years that people are up in arms about them? Never heard these debates from anyone back in the 70's,80s and 90s.
If you want to discuss this and similar issues why not begin another thread and we can all dive in together there and debate it?
Just to answer your point about BA; I cannot say as I have no knowledge but as for BT I can only assume that it is not seen as a good speculator's investment due to pension costs, lack of assets relative to its size, government and regulatory interference that hinders where and how it can compete, dotcom crashes and the fact that historically it is caught out by trying to give a service whilst trying to compete (and possibly failing in both). In actual fact its yields are greater than many companies but share price is probably as much about speculation than investment and returns.
Have you started a thread yet on EDM 1367? Now I would like to hear yours and others views on that. Is that more or less contentious? Start the thread. I'll join you there!

I wholeheartedley support this. We have strayed far from the EDM 1032 thread. If you dont like public servants or have other gripes please start another thread. This thread is about EDM 1032 - lets stick to it please.

Ripoff_2

All, getting back to the thread. So far 107 MP's have signed the EDM.

LAB = 87 LD = 4 CON = 0 OTH = 16

Just to remind you ALL that the EDM is asking for a delay in implimentation of a change of this magnitude, that effects millions of people until a FULL impact analysis and evaluation has been undertaken, THAT IS NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK SURELY.

Only then can the professionals views be fully assessed, debated, and be carefully considered. Only then can a balanced rational view be reached, because at the moment this change is being implimented just because it can, no detailed study has been undertaken by the Government to the implications and true effects on peoples lives to this change. Hence, the EDM 1032.

Changing the UK inflation rate from one measure to another is a really BIG issue and to change it like this with out a full debate is disgraceful by any Government. This change is so fundimental that not having that debate is very undemocratic and not really the right thing to do in a so called democracy, especially when this Government, being a coalition, has no real mandate to make this change.

bendix

teacher_retired wrote: »

I wholeheartedley support this. We have strayed far from the EDM 1032 thread. If you dont like public servants or have other gripes please start another thread. This thread is about EDM 1032 - lets stick to it please.

Could I politely point out that you are a retired teacher, and as such your powers to direct people no longer apply?

This is a free-based internet forum. Members are entitled to post whatever views they like on this subject.

If you want a thread which includes only warm and fuzzy supportive messages, why don't you set up an invitation members-only website, instead of putting your old teachers jacket back on and telling us what we can and can't discuss on this thread.

Thanks kindly.

aprimay

Are you quite sure you don't want to open another thread?You could pass on all that knowledge to the less able and give tips on financial self sufficiency and perhaps shine a light into the darkness.Productive or what,as I do not know what you are trying to achieve on this thread.Enlighten?Obstruct?Disrupt?Be an example to others?I've no idea,however I personally have found the majority of posts helpful useful,positive, productive and with a sense of purpose.I offer a huge thank-you to all those making such valuable contributions.

bendix

aprimay wrote: »

Are you quite sure you don't want to open another thread?You could pass on all that knowledge to the less able and give tips on financial self sufficiency and perhaps shine a light into the darkness.Productive or what,as I do not know what you are trying to achieve on this thread.Enlighten?Obstruct?Disrupt?Be an example to others?I've no idea,however I personally have found the majority of posts helpful useful,positive, productive and with a sense of purpose.I offer a huge thank-you to all those making such valuable contributions.

Pretty sure, thanks aprimay.

Have you heard of the moral philosopher Karl Popper? I urge you to read him. Then you will get a sense of the value myself and Mr Slaphead bring to this thread.

StevieJ

bendix wrote: »

Pretty sure, thanks aprimay.

Have you heard of the moral philosopher Karl Popper? I urge you to read him. Then you will get a sense of the value myself and Mr Slaphead bring to this thread.

Strange here is a view from Popper, what is strange is you appearing to be one of the most intolerant people I have encountered on these boards

We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as crimina

Old_Slaphead

aprimay wrote: »

Productive or what,as I do not know what you are trying to achieve on this thread.Enlighten?Obstruct?Disrupt?

To offer a balanced view, that's all.

The change from RPI to CPI isn't bad news for all - most will actually benefit if eventually CPI becomes the index of choice.


May I respectfully suggest that if OP had intended the thread as an exclusive gathering of like-minded thinkers then he should have created a website and posted a link to it from MSE forum (for example see 'Save our Savers') rather than offer the subject up for discussion. Unfortunately, it is a trait of this kind of debate that it to occasionally meanders off topic - especially when there are several hundred posts.

Finally a definition of "forum" - a meeting or opportunity for an exchange of views.

StevieJ

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

To offer a balanced view, that's all.

The change from RPI to CPI isn't bad news for all - most will actually benefit if eventually CPI becomes the index of choice.


.

Mmm, let me think about that, I have thought and no they won't It has been done to save money, simple as. Ahh I see what you mean, all the ones without a CPI pension will benefit.

teacher_retired

Ripoff wrote: »

All, getting back to the thread. So far 107 MP's have signed the EDM.

LAB = 87 LD = 4 CON = 0 OTH = 16

Just to remind you ALL that the EDM is asking for a delay in implimentation of a change of this magnitude, that effects millions of people until a FULL impact analysis and evaluation has been undertaken, THAT IS NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK SURELY.

Only then can the professionals views be fully assessed, debated, and be carefully considered. Only then can a balanced rational view be reached, because at the moment this change is being implimented just because it can, no detailed study has been undertaken by the Government to the implications and true effects on peoples lives to this change. Hence, the EDM 1032.

Changing the UK inflation rate from one measure to another is a really BIG issue and to change it like this with out a full debate is disgraceful by any Government. This change is so fundimental that not having that debate is very undemocratic and not really the right thing to do in a so called democracy, especially when this Government, being a coalition, has no real mandate to make this change.

Thanks for getting us all back on track with this update.

Old_Slaphead

StevieJ wrote: »

Mmm, let me think about that, I have thought and no they won't It has been done to save money, simple as. Ahh I see what you mean, all the ones without a CPI pension will benefit.

If wages, benefits, pensions etc are indexed to a lower inflation rate that means public spending comes down & British industry becomes more competitive - no ?