RPI to CPI Early Day Motion 1032

Aberdeenangarse

teacher_retired wrote: »

Let us go back to that previous time when public wages were low would you deny those pensioners their rpi link?

It's all me, me, me again. I bet you won't have to work until you're 70. You don't seem to have a clue how the Private sector Pensions have been decimated.

Edit - I see you're retired, so enough said!

teacher_retired

It does not apply to me. I was just trying to understand the point you were making. Sorry to upset you so much.
Incidentally I have a son who is an engineer and I do understand the point you are making with regard to the private sector.

Prof_as_was

Aberdeenangarse wrote: »

What a load of cobblers!

When I first started work, some 20+ years ago it was generally accepted that, as the Private sector earned more than the Public sector, the payoff was that Public sector had 'Gold plated' Pensions. Fair enough at the time, .....

Listen and think a minute. I started work 53 years ago. So I think my bleat is OK with you, taking away my RPI deal is robbing me, you agree? So you'll support my case and campaugn whenever you get the chance? Thanks.

Note to Bendix - inflation is a centuries old phenomenon, goes on continually, can't be stopped, noone sure yet how to manage it successfully. Sometimes gets out of hand. For example, a terrible 16th century inflation was caused by Spanish silver imports from South America. A terrible 20th century German one was driven by Govt printing paper money like their was no tomorrow. In our own 1970s, a terrible burst was driven by unusual wage increases. These were should have been learning experiences, to an extent have been.

Measuring it. In the recent times there have been a variety of measures invented - a variety because it is too complex to get in one measure, and its very very tricky. RPI and CPI are price measures. There are many drivers of price inflation, currently in a global economy many of them happening outside our shores and management. Wage inflation remains important, and its still a force. Bubbles are another, eg housing.

A great example of what can happen to fixed incomes without sufficient and rational inflation protection is the OAP. Never exactly enriching, for years it was linked to average income, (wage inflation), better than RPI. Mrs T decoupled that, made it RPI - result, price inflation turned the OAP iunto a joke (except for those with nothing else.) That's why the inflation index for all pensions matters - even on RPI, it steadily falls behind the rate of increase of wages. Did you know the ONS has pensioner price inflation indices too, that show RPI doesn't keep pensioners up with the cost of what they have to buy, CPI even less. We are trying to cling to RPI, but actually even RPI is not an adequate pension protection for anybody, long term.

Point concerning your questions (that imply a new idiosyncrtatic theory of inflation, if I've understood you right) is this - the various indices are chasing along behind inflation, doing their best to puzzle out what's happening.

The last thing that will ever dictate the course and extent of inflation (rising prices) is any one of the many ONS attempts (or anybody else's) to measure it. Comprende?

starchbag

I recall the BBC was changing its Pension policy introducing a less favourable scheme although retaining the RPI for retired pensioners therefore CPI will not apply to this scheme for retired pensioners. Good luck to those retired pensioners if this is true can any body confirm if this is correct and is thier an issue regarding Equailty issues since this is a goverment funded scheme /public funded through the TV license.

MEY_3

Old Slaphead
I think you are turning reality on its head somewhat. Royal Mail had faults but its problems began by hiving off the profitable bits - the bits that subsidised the costly labour-intensive areas - by Thatcher. The private carriers don't want it. They don't want to visit your door everyday if you live in rural Scotland for example. Ironically those private carriers now mainly belong to state run foreign mail carriers. RM was the envy of the world. Now its the laughing stock.
As for BT's inefficiencies, they provided a 24 hour service and only really started going downhill when private competition could undercut precisely because they didn't offer a service. To maintain any of that service the labour intensive bits have been transferred to India where possible.
Personally on balance I'd rather see the public sector run all essential services as services rather than be shareholder pocket liners.
But the point is this: RPI was used for pension uplifts. RPI is being replaced by CPI on a permanent basis. CPI is even less accurate of true inflation rates than RPI. RPI the measure portrayed in all pension examples members received. The move to CPI affects pensioners and future pensioners. They are all in it together. This thread is about EDM 1032 which is about the people affected and those effects - who are all in it together. If you don't like the public services, public pensions, inequality between the private pension industry and the public, that's fine. What has it got to do with this thread though? It's not asking for your opinion on whether you think it is right, just or good. It is asking for people to support the move to get the change suspended until the effects are weighed up. Because what they had is being taken away on a false premise.

Interested_Taxpayer

MEY wrote: »

Old Slaphead
This thread is about EDM 1032 which is about the people affected and those effects - who are all in it together. If you don't like the public services, public pensions, inequality between the private pension industry and the public, that's fine. What has it got to do with this thread though? It's not asking for your opinion on whether you think it is right, just or good. It is asking for people to support the move to get the change suspended until the effects are weighed up. Because what they had is being taken away on a false premise.

Yes MEY. That's it for you Old Slaphead. Definitely and rightly off to bed with you. Try to sleep that chip off your shoulder. You never know you may feel a little better with life.:p

Andy_L

starchbag wrote: »

I recall the BBC was changing its Pension policy introducing a less favourable scheme although retaining the RPI for retired pensioners therefore CPI will not apply to this scheme for retired pensioners.

The BBC changes are that only part of future pay rises will count towards pensionable salary, & thus has no effect on retired/deferred members

Whether they change to CPI for indexation depends how their scheme rules are worded. Looking at them they specify RPI & require the agreement of both the trustees and the BBC to change to a different index rather than automatically change if legislation changes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/sites/helpadvice/pages/documents-scheme.shtml

Old_Slaphead

MEY wrote: »

Personally on balance I'd rather see the public sector run all essential services as services rather than be shareholder pocket liners.
But the point is this: RPI was used for pension uplifts. RPI is being replaced by CPI on a permanent basis. CPI is even less accurate of true inflation rates than RPI. RPI the measure portrayed in all pension examples members received. The move to CPI affects pensioners and future pensioners. They are all in it together. This thread is about EDM 1032 which is about the people affected and those effects - who are all in it together. If you don't like the public services, public pensions, inequality between the private pension industry and the public, that's fine. What has it got to do with this thread though? It's not asking for your opinion on whether you think it is right, just or good. It is asking for people to support the move to get the change suspended until the effects are weighed up. Because what they had is being taken away on a false premise.

Firstly can I suggest that you checkout the BT/BA shareprice since privatisation to see whether these companies has been run for the benefit of shareholder pocket liners.

Secondly if you have legal entitlement to RPI uplifts then you will get it. BTW there's no such thing as a true inflation rate - it's different for everyone.

Thirdly I don't deliberately go of topic. I merely give my views in response to other posters where I think misleading or inaccurate information is being given. If you carefully check through the thread as a whole you'll find that many posters stray away from the original point - I'm no better or worse than most - probably more noticeable because I don't concur with your views.

Finally - there's any easy way to stop my interference, you and your coterie simply ignore my posting. That way I'll get bored & leave you alone (you hope). Alternatively I may post even more .

Seems a bit of a feeble argument if you can't put up with a modicum of critical stresstesting of your arguments. At the end of the day if you want to talk about 'fairness' at least qualify it by saying that you want fairness for those with the most priviledged pension arrangements by ensuring that the spiralling costs continue to be met by those without any hope such generous benefits.

JamesU

OldSlaphead, Happy Birthday! Post 2000 today!

JamesU

MEY_3

Old Slaphead
This thread was started to bring attention to EDM 1032 and encourage people to take action to write to their MPs. If someone doesn't wish to that's fine. If they philosophically oppose it, that too is fine. This is surely not a division vote though; ayes to right the right, no's to the left. It is presumably intended for those who will see the values of their pensions hit and by underhand means. Not the first or last time that will happen to folks, I'm sure.
Most of the straying off topic is caused by those arguing against 1032. You don't have to argue against it - just ignore it. The issue is simple and each time someone says they don't like it it launches another debate that potentially will point up differing economic view points which are so entrenched it just becomes a slanging match - completely detached from the thread's purpose.
As for RPI, you seem to have a faith in the law which you don't echo regards Equitable Life though. If only things were so straight forward lawyers would be broke!
When I talk of "real" inflation I talk of the increases in individuals costs and prices as opposed to the government inflation measures.
I know our views don't concur and am content with that but as your post suggests, you enjoy the argument even when there isn't one and help spin things off in a wider direction. You aren't alone, but you are the most persistent.
Public service pension arrangements are what they are. I wonder why it is only these past few years that people are up in arms about them? Never heard these debates from anyone back in the 70's,80s and 90s.
If you want to discuss this and similar issues why not begin another thread and we can all dive in together there and debate it?
Just to answer your point about BA; I cannot say as I have no knowledge but as for BT I can only assume that it is not seen as a good speculator's investment due to pension costs, lack of assets relative to its size, government and regulatory interference that hinders where and how it can compete, dotcom crashes and the fact that historically it is caught out by trying to give a service whilst trying to compete (and possibly failing in both). In actual fact its yields are greater than many companies but share price is probably as much about speculation than investment and returns.
Have you started a thread yet on EDM 1367? Now I would like to hear yours and others views on that. Is that more or less contentious? Start the thread. I'll join you there!