RPI to CPI Early Day Motion 1032

MEY_3

"Phileb",

Rod Kent's letter doesn't fully add up does it? What he is in effect saying is that BT are unlikely to agree to change the rules linking the scheme to RPI for definite because that would financially put them (BT) in a position that they were already in before the government announced the CPI change. Indeed, presumably (I am not convinced) BT were not even aware like us until just prior to November, that the government's change would impact on their scheme. Or have they been discussing this with the Tory party and Labour ministers even before the election?

Anyway, surely it is for the trustees to approach the company formally, and not decide in advance that it is unlikely to be a success. They are duty and morally bound to represent the scheme members interests to BT I'd say, after their perennial misrepresentation of the scheme to the membership. Don't ask - don't get!

JohnB47

Phileb - I have had a letter from my MP just recently too and it includes the wording you quote - what's the chance that it's a standard letter that all Lib Con MPs have been supplied by head office?

My letter also says ".... the government believes that the CPI provides a more appropriate measure of pension recipients' inflation experiences and is also consistent with the measure of inflation used by the Bank of England. The CPI uses a methodology that takes better account of consumer behaviour in response to price increases."

Doesn't that run absolutely counter to the Conservative stance while in opposition (as quoted in an earlier post on this thread)?

I have a mind to write back to him but I feel that I won't be able to include all of the good points that could be made.

Perhaps we could collectively put together a letter repudiating all of the statements made by our various MPS, including references to earlier statement by others in their own party, and which we could send them in reply. Then again, perhaps not directly relevant to this thread. Just a thought.

Goldwing1

Challenge it.
My challenge was worded as follows;

"The following statement is included in the text (para 4)
“ I believe that the CPI is a more appropriate measure of changes in the cost of living of pensioners that the Retail Price Index (RPI).”
I would be interested to know which professional bodies have provided written evidence to lead you to believe this."

I then received a copy of a document from the House of Commons Library. It was very long but contained one key quote. I then wrote back the following;

"Thank you for the latest letter.

It is a very wordy document that appears to contain only one reference to a professional body. The text on page three of the briefing being;
On 6 October 2010, the UK Statistics Authority9 replied, saying the CPI should become the primary measure of consumer price inflation, once the inclusion in the index of owner occupiers‟ housing costs had been achieved:
We continue to regard both the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) and the Retail Prices Index (RPI) as important measures of consumer price inflation. We believe that the CPI should become the primary measure of consumer price inflation but only when the inclusion in the index of owner occupiers' housing costs has been achieved. We note that the ONS has an active research and development programme for the CPI and the RPI, and are preparing for wider user engagement on a forward work programme, starting this autumn.10

From this it would appear that the Government’s own advisors are stating that CPI is not currently fit for purpose and, by default, support the early day motion. On that basis I would urge Mr Green to consider supporting the early day motion based on the advice of the Governments own advisors. "

That was before Christmas. I have yet to receive an answer but I am chasing for one.

Ripoff_2

Goldwing1 wrote: »

Challenge it.
My challenge was worded as follows;

"The following statement is included in the text (para 4)
“ I believe that the CPI is a more appropriate measure of changes in the cost of living of pensioners that the Retail Price Index (RPI).”
I would be interested to know which professional bodies have provided written evidence to lead you to believe this."

I then received a copy of a document from the House of Commons Library. It was very long but contained one key quote. I then wrote back the following;

"Thank you for the latest letter.

It is a very wordy document that appears to contain only one reference to a professional body. The text on page three of the briefing being;
On 6 October 2010, the UK Statistics Authority9 replied, saying the CPI should become the primary measure of consumer price inflation, once the inclusion in the index of owner occupiers‟ housing costs had been achieved:
We continue to regard both the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) and the Retail Prices Index (RPI) as important measures of consumer price inflation. We believe that the CPI should become the primary measure of consumer price inflation but only when the inclusion in the index of owner occupiers' housing costs has been achieved. We note that the ONS has an active research and development programme for the CPI and the RPI, and are preparing for wider user engagement on a forward work programme, starting this autumn.10

From this it would appear that the Government’s own advisors are stating that CPI is not currently fit for purpose and, by default, support the early day motion. On that basis I would urge Mr Green to consider supporting the early day motion based on the advice of the Governments own advisors. "

That was before Christmas. I have yet to receive an answer but I am chasing for one.

This is excellent, we need to bombard them with this, how can they now justify their position plus remember what George Osbourne said in opposition:
On 19th August 2008 the then Shadow Chancellor George Osborne said "pensioner inflation is now considerably higher than CPI inflation because pensioners spend a much higher percentage of their income on high-inflation goods, like heating, light and food." (from Conservative Party, ‘An Unfair Britain: Why Labour have failed on fairness’, 19th August 2008). So what has changed then?

Ripoff_2

JohnB47 wrote: »

Phileb - I have had a letter from my MP just recently too and it includes the wording you quote - what's the chance that it's a standard letter that all Lib Con MPs have been supplied by head office?

My letter also says ".... the government believes that the CPI provides a more appropriate measure of pension recipients' inflation experiences and is also consistent with the measure of inflation used by the Bank of England. The CPI uses a methodology that takes better account of consumer behaviour in response to price increases."

Doesn't that run absolutely counter to the Conservative stance while in opposition (as quoted in an earlier post on this thread)?

I have a mind to write back to him but I feel that I won't be able to include all of the good points that could be made.

Perhaps we could collectively put together a letter repudiating all of the statements made by our various MPS, including references to earlier statement by others in their own party, and which we could send them in reply. Then again, perhaps not directly relevant to this thread. Just a thought.

The CSPA website has a MP's flannel letter that will help and the post from Goldwing1 will certainly help.

Ripoff_2

The EDM1032 totals continue to rise, we now have 90 MP's that have signed the motion. Believe it or not this is high for an EDM but we still need more, keep contacting your MP's and raise the arguments with them. See the previous posts, especially the one from Goldwing1 for counter arguments.

You have to ask yourself, "how can Steve Webb and the Government justify this change knowing what the House of Commons document says on this?"

This Tory led Government said they would be FAIR, remember? Even if you accept this has to be done it can't be FAIR to use a fundemenatally flawed measure that as a Government you know is flawed (it says so in the House of Commons Document) and you know that it doesn't measure inflation properly, especially pensioner inflation but use it anyway. HOW is that FAIR by any standards.

As I have said many times in these posts, this is a question of Right and Wrong and this action is just simply WRONG!

BUT Remember "We are all in this together!" as George Osborne visits Cloisters for the New Year! The hypocracy makes my blood boil because in a few years time with CPI indexing, as our pensions de-value and we become more impoverished, then we will be lucky to visit anywhere of merit, nevermind Cloisters. Some of course will never be affected by this change but funny enough they are the one's saying how good it is for us and how much better this measure is of pensioner inflation knowing they can afford not to worry about it because it will never effect them.

LAB = 72 LD = 4 CON = 0 Oth = 14

Interested_Taxpayer

Ripoff wrote: »

You have to ask yourself, "how can Steve Webb and the Government justify this change knowing what the House of Commons document says on this?"

This Tory led Government said they would be FAIR, remember? Even if you accept this has to be done it can't be FAIR to use a fundemenatally flawed measure that as a Government you know is flawed (it says so in the House of Commons Document) and you know that it doesn't measure inflation properly, especially pensioner inflation but use it anyway. HOW is that FAIR by any standards.

Nick Clegg also said during the pre-General Election TV debates that his party would provide fairer government.

Take a look at the Guardian on line in the money section. Steve Webb is holding a live Q & A session on pensions on Thursday 20 January.

Don't hold back now

Ripoff_2

Interested_Taxpayer wrote: »

Nick Clegg also said during the pre-General Election TV debates that his party would provide fairer government.

Take a look at the Guardian on line in the money section. Steve Webb is holding a live Q & A session on pensions on Thursday 20 January.

Don't hold back now

Thanks for the heads up, I'll put the date in my diary.

BoxerfanUK

Forgive my ignorance, but who is Steve Webb?

Old_Slaphead

BoxerfanUK wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance, but who is Steve Webb?

Work & Pensions Minister