Police Section 5 DA04 - Accused of spitting at clamping officer

anewman

Stigy wrote: »

That's your right to do so, but I can't help but feel that it could go horribly wrong at court, and you don't want that when applying for a Visa.

You could see it the other way though. Paying is almost admitting the offence. My view would be for this to go badly in court the Police officer would need to have lied in his notes or turn up and lie in court (based on what has been said in the original post about other independent people not being asked whether they witnessed it, and it being a one person's word against the other scenario).

Try to think from the judges perspective. Is this person in court a low life chav who probably did commit the offence and spends his Job Seekers Allowance on fags and cider and just doesn't want to pay the £80 - or is this person genuine, would have the money to pay and make it "go away", and is being honest and truthful about the events? Yes the courts would tend to take a Police officer's word, but if the officer says he took the clamper's word for it and did not seek the opinion of independent witnesses then it doesn't look very good.

(BTW IANAL etc etc).

Stigy

anewman wrote: »

You could see it the other way though. Paying is almost admitting the offence. My view would be for this to go badly in court the Police officer would need to have lied in his notes or turn up and lie in court (based on what has been said in the original post about other independent people not being asked whether they witnessed it, and it being a one person's word against the other scenario).

Try to think from the judges perspective. Is this person in court a low life chav who probably did commit the offence and spends his Job Seekers Allowance on fags and cider and just doesn't want to pay the £80 - or is this person genuine, would have the money to pay and make it "go away", and is being honest and truthful about the events? Yes the courts would tend to take a Police officer's word, but if the officer says he took the clamper's word for it and did not seek the opinion of independent witnesses then it doesn't look very good.

(BTW IANAL etc etc).

I see your point, but most people that are issued with a PND/FPN are reletively respectable, as the types you describe probably wouldn't be suitable anyway (there's guidelines on PNC of who would be eligible, and if you're always being arrested or have a string of previous, chances are you won't be eligible).

The Magistrates would have seen this all before, too. Also bear in kind, that on the back of one of the copies the officer sent to the Cetral Ticket Office there's an MG11 form, and what the officer writes on this could turn a case round I suppose.

Also, DailyClicker, I'm assuming you were cautioned by the officer before he handed you the PND? Was there a reply on your part? This could prove vital, especially if you said something like "I didn't do it". As the caution suggests, it could harm you defence, if you do not mention now, something which you later rely on in court.

BTW, I just had to look IANAL up, lol.

DailyClicker

I've been tempted to pay it, but like anewman has mentioned, paying it accepts guilt, even though it would not leave me with a criminal record.

Why should I have to be scared into paying it, when I did not commit the offence? Fair enough, if I had spat at her, I'd deserve more than a £80 fine.

How long does it usually take to go to court after you have returned the slip requesting a court case, as I was planning on going to Australia in January

Is it possible to view the MG11 form and statement from the clamper?

DailyClicker

Stigy wrote: »

Also, DailyClicker, I'm assuming you were cautioned by the officer before he handed you the PND? Was there a reply on your part? This could prove vital, especially if you said something like "I didn't do it". As the caution suggests, it could harm you defence, if you do not mention now, something which you later rely on in court.

I don't believe I was cautioned, and I was protesting that I did not do it, and independant witnesses were still around.

Stigy

DailyClicker wrote: »

I don't believe I was cautioned, and I was protesting that I did not do it, and independant witnesses were still around.

On looking at the FPN/PND you supplied, it appears there's no place to write any responses to the caution, or to evidence that there was one. I can't recall off the top of my head, but the BTP ones I issue I think, state about the caution on the carbon copy that the offender receives, and not just on the back (my copy)...I could be wrong there though. I do think it's a condition of the issue, to use the 'now' caution when issuing a PND/FPN.

You'll no doubt have access to all MG11s at court, although there might not be one from the Clamper. It would help the case of the clamper and Police it there was one though, and I would obtain these where possible. Chances are you won't be in court before you intend to go abroad. What if you were to get a visa before the case is over with? Is that possible, or do they ask if any cases are pending against you?

taffy056

In theory you should win in court, but if you saw a thread I put up a few days ago about a fireman breaking down, he got a FPN for parking in a bus bay, he put his vehicle in a safe place and went to get help, on his return the ticket was there, on taking it to court the judge basically told he should have broke down somewhere else and fined him with costs £725.

I am not try to scare you, but you've got some right ones as judges, and no matter what witnesses you have the judge may find against you like the fireman who also had an indepedent witness, the question to ask is the gamble worth it instead of a visa ?

Stigy

taffy056 wrote: »

In theory you should win in court, but if you saw a thread I put up a few days ago about a fireman breaking down, he got a FPN for parking in a bus bay, he put his vehicle in a safe place and went to get help, on his return the ticket was there, on taking it to court the judge basically told he should have broke down somewhere else and fined him with costs £725.

I am not try to scare you, but you've got some right ones as judges, and no matter what witnesses you have the judge may find against you like the fireman who also had an indepedent witness, the question to ask is the gamble worth it instead of a visa ?

Should that not be Magistrate?

Unless there's a more sinister offence here, lol.

Torby

I reckon you should phone the Daily Mail...they'll love this story...

peter_the_piper

Stigy wrote: »

Should that not be Magistrate?

Unless there's a more sinister offence here, lol.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/11/22/fireman-fined-after-his-van-breaks-down-91466-27689639/

Fergie76

Sorry, not read the whole thread, but for a FPN (fixed penalty notice) there is no admission of guilt. However, a Formal Police Caution (FPC), there is an admission of guilt.