Do I need a better wireless router?

bigpat

For several weeks now I've been having intermittent (but pretty frequent) problems with my internet signal. I'm using VirginMedia and their helpdesk aren't up to much!

We have a fairly old PC, a laptop, a netbook and an Xbox and the problem seems to happen when several devices are on at the same time. I don't know if that makes sense though. I thought it should work like radio signals i.e. if you turn on more radios it doesn't weaken the signal to the first one. But what do I know?

The problem is that the Virgin icon in the system tray gets a yellow 'X' on it and then Internet Explorer says "The page cannot be displayed". When I go into the wireless manager program it tells me that it can't find my wireless adaptor. I've checked all the connections and they all seem secure and if you wait a minute or so, the problem generally rights itself. But then a minute or two later it will go again. Then the kids or the missus start yelling that they can't get online either. I turn off the modem and router, wait a bit, turn them on again but it seems to have no effect.

The wireless symbol on the router flickers like mad too. It flickers at a steady RATE (too fast to count but at least 10 times a second I'd say), but as far as I know it's just meant to be ON. And I've noticed that it seems to be less of a problem when other devices are off. It's hard to pin this down exactly though, as it's not always practical to turn things off. I work from home some days and the kids may be using the internet for gaming, facebook (or God forbid - homework!!)

Various tech info follows in case that's of any use to anyone
Broadband package: Virgin Media 'L' package
Modem: ntl250 cable modem
Router: Netgear Wireless-G router WGR614v9

I've checked my broadband speed with various online "guages" and the average seems to be about 2MB/S for download and 260KB/S for upload. Two issues with this:
1) Virgin 'L' package is "up to" 10MB
2) Some tests failed or timed out.

In fact the last two tests were better but I've just realised the missus has turned off her laptop. Lo and behold the wireless symbol on the router is steady again....no wait...there it goes again. My son's probably killing Xbox aliens again!

So I'm back to my original question, I suppose. Do I need a stronger/better router? Or is the problem likely to be elsewhere?

Grateful for any advice!

Pat.

pcombo

You could try moving the router incase something around it is interfering with the signal or buy a better antenna for router. You also could try upgrading to wireless-n which would need a new router and any new adaptors if current ones dont have N compatibility.

The wan connection wouldn't really make a difference to the wifi signal unless you actually have a problem with your cable.

DCFC79

The message you get in ie do you get it in firefox as well, im on virgin 10mb and have same router from them, try moving the router or change the router channel

esuhl

bigpat wrote: »

We have a fairly old PC, a laptop, a netbook and an Xbox and the problem seems to happen when several devices are on at the same time. I don't know if that makes sense though. I thought it should work like radio signals i.e. if you turn on more radios it doesn't weaken the signal to the first one. But what do I know?

I think the signal radiates out in a circle, whether or not there are aerials to detect the radiation (in other words, it shouldn't make a difference to signal strength when you have multiple devices connected, but since the overall speed is fixed, the speed of each device may be affected).

Each device needs its own IP address - setting multiple devices to use the same one will result in connectivity problems. If the PCs are running Windows, you can open a command prompt and type "ipconfig -all". This should list the various network adapters (ethernet, wireless, Bluetooth, etc.) and their assigned IP addresses (probably starting 192.168...). If they're the same, you'll need to change them.

bigpat wrote: »

The wireless symbol on the router flickers like mad too. It flickers at a steady RATE (too fast to count but at least 10 times a second I'd say), but as far as I know it's just meant to be ON. And I've noticed that it seems to be less of a problem when other devices are off.

The wireless symbols on my routers remain on when the wireless connection is active, but flash when they are receiving/transmitting data - as more data are transmitted per second, the rate of flashing increases.

bigpat wrote: »

I've checked my broadband speed with various online "guages" and the average seems to be about 2MB/S for download and 260KB/S for upload. Two issues with this:
1) Virgin 'L' package is "up to" 10MB
2) Some tests failed or timed out.

Do you have a microfilter attached to every phone socket? It might be worth unplugging all other phones, faxes(?!), set-top boxes, etc. just leaving the router connected to see if that helps. If it does, re-test the speed after you've connected each device to see if one of them (or a dodgy microfilter) is causing the problem. You might want to try with a different microfilter attached to the router too.

EDIT: Oh, and maybe try connecting one PC to the router via an ethernet cable to see if it's just the wireless signal that's the problem...

Hope that helps...

Tippon

Try downloading and running Net Stumbler. It's a small tool that scans for any nearby wireless networks and lets you know which channel they're using, and what the signal strength is. If there's another strong signal on a channel close to the one you're using, it could be causing interference.

http://www.netstumbler.com/downloads/

Hammyman

Tippon wrote: »

Try downloading and running Net Stumbler.

Please don't. Netstumbler has a small number of supported devices. Instead use InSSIDer which works with all network cards and gives you a good easy to understand interface.

But other than that, I reckon on several wifi routers being on the same channel as well as most manufacturers default is channel 1,10 or 11.

I actually had one customer who couldn't connect to his wifi even in the same room due to the fact the entire village, including him, was on channel 11.

Tippon

Hammyman wrote: »

Please don't. Netstumbler has a small number of supported devices. Instead use InSSIDer which works with all network cards and gives you a good easy to understand interface.

Strange, I've never had a problem with Netstumbler. Thanks for the heads up on InSSIDer though, it looks good and seems to have a few more tools for us geeks

exup

Wireless is half duplex, which means only one host can transmit or recieve to the wireless access point/router at once. The access point will flick between them quickly and prioritise depending on its default quality of service settings but the more wireless devices the worse the problem gets - usually the workable limit is about 6 devices.
The more devices you can connect with a cable the better - such as a desktop PC that doesn't move.
Changing wireless channels may help.
I would say if your router is on the way out - just a couple of devices added to the network would cause problems, maybe even just one

bigpat

Oh !!!!!!...lost a whole long message I was typing when website went down earlier!

Ok. Should have mentioned earlier that desktop PC is WIRED not wireless and is connected as follows:
ntl cable box --> modem --> router --> ethernet cable --> PC.

Some years ago modem was connected directly to PC but then we got a laptop and went wireless and this is the configuration I've ended up with. I seem to remember it took me ages to figure out the right way to connect everything so wired and wireless would work together but I got there and everything had been fine until approx 2 months ago, maybe less.

I downloaded inSSIder and although I don't understand much of it, I can see my wireless network listed top with an RSSI value of around -50, fluctuating between maybe -45 and -55. I have no idea what these values mean. This is on channel 6.

There are seven other networks listed, with RSSIs between approx -85 and -95. Four are on channel 11, two on channel 1 and the other is on channel 6, same as mine. The RSSI for that one is -95 if that makes any difference. I'm guessing this means I'm picking up a weaker signal from this one, but I may be completely misunderstanding this.

Moving equipment round: Not really feasible. ntl cable box is in the dining room and the desktop PC is next to it. The modem and router are on the shelf underneath the PC and there's really nowhere else suitable in the house.

Microfilters: Do I need these for CABLE broadband? Broadband comes into dining room through side of house and that's the only cable in that box. Phone line (also Virgin) comes in through a different cable at the front of the house. We have just one phone socket in the house, though we have digital cordless phones with one upstairs. No socket there of course. Do I still need a microfilter and how would I check if I have one? Virgin installed this lot approx 3 years ago, so presumably would have fitted the right kit.

IP Address: I figured out how to run a command prompt (am I a techie now or what??:rotfl:) and got the IP Config thing. Not a clue what any of it means of course and it doesn't look like you can copy and paste from the Prompt screen. And you can't do attachments to this forum either, so I've taken a screenshot of the IP address screen and uploaded it to http://www.flickr.com/photos/56274189@N08/5199507734/
If anyone can take a look at that and tell me whether something needs changing (and how to!) I'll have a go.

One other thing: Signal hasn't been too bad tonight, but at one point I had the laptop in here, so two computers within a foot or so of each other and the laptop was picking up the signal but the desktop PC wasn't. A minute or so later, without touching anything, it came back. I don't know whether this sheds any additional light.

Grateul for advice so far and happy to take any suggestions on board.

Thanks everyone!

debitcardmayhem

HI I too just lost a long message but that was me being stupid

OK what you put on the flickr was good, but you need to go to each PC in turn and do ipconfig on each (but instead of using flickr use the command prompt box window CMD [STRIKE]and at the top left corner of the window select edit mark then press enter and paste into your post using ctrl+v)[/STRIKE] that will show us how each PC is configured for IP , there is a possibility that there is a duplicate TCP/IP address on them. In Fact write them down and type them as mine is below and type it its quicker on 3 PCs. (the red bits)

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : WAG54GS
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::5ce3:c49:6904:93d7%11
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.40
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1

exup

OK little bit on IP addresses.
To save on IP addresses (this is IP version 4 we are using here) otherwise the world would have run out of IP addresses ages ago, your router is giving all the devices it connects to in your house (or network) a local address.
Think of your router like a security guard, and all the mail it gets it sends on to
Flat 1
Flat 2
Flat 3 etc
No one in the outside world may even know that Flat 1 2 or 3 exists except your guard

In the routers case this is 192.168.1.2 (Flat 1) 192.168.1.3 (Flat 2) etc
The 192.168.1.1 is the address of your router - so that all the computers know which address they have to send their data to to get out of your house into the outside world.

Your router will then change the internal IP address to an external IP address - This is given to you by Virgin - and could be something like 88.125.21.20 and then sends it to your modem, and your date goes out into the world.
If you turn off your router and modem then you could lose this address - this is no big deal though as Virgin will simply recycle the address and give it to someone else when they switch their equipment on
When you next switch your modem on, Virgin will give you another IP address (or maybe the same one) via its DHCP server (Dynamic Host Control Protocol - this stores the IP addresses)

the Subnet mask isnt as important and usually will be 255.255.255.0
But all this means is the type of network you are on,
Class a networks (HUUUGE companies but not many of these) would have subnet mask something like 255.0.0.0
Class b (smaller companies but a few more than class A) 255.255.0.0
Class c (even smaller networks but could be loads of them) 255.255.255.0

each computer should have a unique IP address - even one number different is enough (remember the flats above)
but they MUST have the same subnet mask to tell them they are on the same network, and MUST have the same default gateway (your routers address).

there is a way to change the IP addresses if they conflict with each other - but as you can get at least two to connect at a time I don't think that this is a problem.
Also if there is a conflict the computers running windows may flash up a warning telling you that there is a conflict.
The Xbox should have a way of viewing its IP address in its general menu system but as I havent got an xbox - just a PS3 I don't know the procedure sorry - but I'm sure a simple google search on "how do I find my xbox IP address" should find it quick enough

as for the speed test - it is best to do this connected to the router directly (not wireless) and only have one device connected .
May be best to do it when the network has been unplugged for a few minutes to reset the modem and router. Also clear your internet cookie cache etc so the speed test is more reliable.
And time of day can make a little difference too - maybe best time to do a UK test (to a UK based speed test server) is late at night due to heavy internet traffic at other times