ESA + Permitted Work

yappycat

Hi there,

I applied for ESA in Oct 2009 after being finished from work on medical grounds, since then I have been fighting through the appeal process to be assessed as having limited capability for work, I've just won that appeal and have been placed in the Support Group rather than the Work Related Activity Group.
Since 2002 I have worked as a casual lecturer at a Uni for 2 hours per week during term-time (24 weeks/48 hours per year in total with earnings less that £95 pw). This is something I carried on doing after my main job ended and I have done it as 'permitted work' since I applied for ESA. However I was told that I could only do this work for 52 weeks and then if after this period I was not able to start a 16hpw job I'd have to cease the permitted work.

The letter I was recently sent by the DSS described 3 options I had in this situation (described in points 1-3 below), however after some digging I found more info on disabilityalliance.org:

Permitted work for those on employment and support allowance, incapacity benefit, severe disablement allowance or national insurance credits



You have a choice of permitted work options depending on your circumstances:

• 1. Permitted Work Lower Limit - under this option you can earn up to £20 a week for an unlimited period.
  2. Permitted Work Higher Limit - you can work for a 52 week period if the work is for less than 16 hours a week and your earnings do not exceed £95 a week after deductions. Once a period starts even weeks when you do no work count towards the 52 week limit. After you have done 52 weeks work there must be a gap of at least 52 weeks before you can work again, whereupon another 52 weeks work is permitted.
  3. Supported permitted work - if you choose this work option you must be supervised by someone who is employed by a public or local authority, a community interest organisation or voluntary organisation which provides or finds work for people with disabilities. You cannot earn more than £95 a week.
  4. Work done as part of a treatment programme done under medical supervision whilst someone is an in-patient or regularly attending as an out-patient of a hospital or similar institution. Again the limit is £95 per week.
  5. If you are exempt from the IB/IS personal capability assessment - you can work for an unlimited period, if the work is for less than 16 hours a week and your earnings do not exceed £95 a week after deductions.
  6. You are on ESA and you have limited capability for work related activity (you are in the support group) - you can work for an unlimited period, if the work is for less than 16 hours a week and your earnings do not exceed £95 a week after deductions.

It appears to me that point 6 would apply to my situation, however after calling my local JobCentre Plus the person I spoke to claimed never to have heard that before and I am awaiting a call back from someone at that office to clarify the situation.
I have read the same information on several other websites (MS Society/RNIB etc) but I cannot find it confirmed on any official government sites which is a shame as then I'd have something 'official' to point to when I get a call back from possibly another clueless DSS advisor.

Can anyone here confirm/deny whether I am eligible to carry on with my permitted work as per point 6 above?

Thanks for your time x

yappycat

I've got my answer to this question already, a call from the DSS this morning comfirmed that the info I found online is correct and I can carry on with my permitted work indefinitely.

I asked why the info I found was not mentioned anywhere on the letter telling me I'd have to give up my permitted work or lose benefit, the reply was that it was 'so rare' for someone in the support group to be doing permitted work and that 'someone must have missed it'.

I do hope that this situation is 'rare' otherwise there's a lot of people out there who have potentially lost money/given up a job that they did for the love of it because of someone at JobCentre Plus 'missing' something. >.<

Thanks for the space to rant, and maybe the info in this thread will help someone else in the future

dmg24

I can't help but think that being in the support group but being capable of some work is a big old contradiction!

ShockingPink

dmg24 wrote: »

I can't help but think that being in the support group but being capable of some work is a big old contradiction!

Two hours a week is no contradiction, in my opinion - but I do think being able to do 16 hours would be rather odd, to say the least.

yappycat

dmg24 wrote: »

I can't help but think that being in the support group but being capable of some work is a big old contradiction!

I am in the support group as symptoms due to MS have affected me to the point where I no longer leave the house unless I *have* to. Those 2 hours that I push myself to do is not financially rewarding, but it does provide me with some self-esteem and it forces me to go out of the house and *do* something. I am physically exhausted afterwards and have to spend the next day recharging, but psychologically the reward I get from doing this is very important to me.

So forgive me when I say your comment strikes me as trite - yes there are contradictions because there are situations that fall into the grey area between the black and white DSS rules which is precisely why the information I came across by chance should be more widely available in the DSS literature sent out to people like me.

Lakelady_2

That is good news. With IB you can only earn £20 per week for an indefinite period, so £95 pw is a bonus. It used to be called therapeutic earings and you`re right just a couple of hours a week do do you good.

Oldernotwiser

yappycat wrote: »

Those 2 hours that I push myself to do is not financially rewarding, .

Just as a matter of interest, why isn't it financially rewarding?

yappycat

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, why isn't it financially rewarding?

As a 'visiting lecturer' I do not get any expenses paid, it is fairly costly to travel to the Uni I teach at and back again, even more so if I feel too ill to cope with public transport and decide to take a taxi.
All the materials I produce for my students come from my own pocket (ink/paper etc). Also I only get paid for the actual 2 hours that I work, and not for the time spent updating and revising my lectures/seminars or for time marking essays (an awful essay may take as much as 30 minutes to mark and on average I have 20-30 students per semester), I also spend a significant amount of time emailing sudents who want further info, reading suggestions, essay tutoring etc.
After factoring in all of that the £45 ph (before tax etc) I get isn't as lucrative as it might appear at first Tbh I could give it up and not feel any significant financial loss, the effect on my psyche and sense of self would be far more noticeable.

Best wishes to ya

System

No worried the two hours i spend at college could be used against me (though i missed this week (and 2 others) due to the depression)

yappycat

xXMessedUpXx wrote: »

No worried the two hours i spend at college could be used against me (though i missed this week (and 2 others) due to the depression)

I'm not sure about this, in my medical assessment report they didn't make a huge issue of my permitted work - I think they're more interested in putting scores in boxes for their precious 'descriptors' which btw you should look up if you're preparing for a medical assessment. I'd have scored so much better in that assessment had I known what the doctor's questions were specifically driving at.

At my actual tribunal however, the doctor and judge present asked me if my medical needs had affected my work at all, and I was able to give them specific examples of how and why it had been disruptive in the past, it sounds like you will have similar examples to give for your own circumstance too if need be.

Here's a link to a pdf of the descriptors and the scoring..ah apparently I'm too new to post links, but I found it on disabilityalliance.org I can't stress enough how valuable familiarising yourself with them will be if you are waiting to attend a medical assessment. It was only afterwards that I saw them and realised that I had not done myself any favours in the original assessment due to not fully understanding what the assessor was getting at with certain questions and I ended up rescoring my entire assessment myself in preparation for the tribunal.

I hope everything turns out as it should for you

System

yappycat wrote: »

I'm not sure about this, in my medical assessment report they didn't make a huge issue of my permitted work - I think they're more interested in putting scores in boxes for their precious 'descriptors' which btw you should look up if you're preparing for a medical assessment. I'd have scored so much better in that assessment had I known what the doctor's questions were specifically driving at.

At my actual tribunal however, the doctor and judge present asked me if my medical needs had affected my work at all, and I was able to give them specific examples of how and why it had been disruptive in the past, it sounds like you will have similar examples to give for your own circumstance too if need be.

Here's a link to a pdf of the descriptors and the scoring..ah apparently I'm too new to post links, but I found it on disabilityalliance.org I can't stress enough how valuable familiarising yourself with them will be if you are waiting to attend a medical assessment. It was only afterwards that I saw them and realised that I had not done myself any favours in the original assessment due to not fully understanding what the assessor was getting at with certain questions and I ended up rescoring my entire assessment myself in preparation for the tribunal.

I hope everything turns out as it should for you

I was assessed in 2009 and am in the support group, but thanks anyway. I see it as a therapy reallY