Electric heating

CaraAndChris

This has probably been asked before but I can't find a thread that relates exactly to my situation. My partner and I have just bought a 2 bed flat. The flat uses 4 different sized panel heaters. There is no gas connected. The heaters are very uneconomical and we'd like to replace them. What would you recommend we replace them with? We both work during the day (will be out of the flat from 8-6 each weekday) and so would usually use the heating in the evening and during the night (and all day weekends). I'm not sure if storage heaters are best as we will be out of the house during the day. We'd be most interested in economical heaters that are built to last. At the moment we are using an oil heater that we move from room to room and that has been working better than the permanent panel heaters currently installed. Any recommendations would be great! Thanks!

albyota

Hi, What level is the flat on, i.e ground/first/second? the heaters you have are already the most economical 100% efficient form of heating with your sort of lifestyle. Storage heaters, as you may have discovered, are cheaper to run on economy 7, but tend to run out of heat just as you are returning home.

Cardew

Just to emphasise what is stated in the post above, it really is most important to understand that all electrical heating has the same efficiency i.e. 100%. Despite this, you will see loads of electrical heating systems advertised that cleverly imply that they are more economical, filled with special gel/clay etc.

The bottom line is that with all electrical heating the cost of producing heat is exactly the same.

If it is possible to get gas connected, that will be the best long term solution in that it will enhance the value of your property.

Pincher

Rumour had it that you can get RHI (Renewable Heat Initiative) grant for air source heat pump from April 2011. This is before all the cuts initiatives came in, so don't hold your breath.

Basically it's a wall mounted air-conditioing unit that does hot and cold.

amtrakuk

Cardew wrote: »

Just to emphasise what is stated in the post above, it really is most important to understand that all electrical heating has the same efficiency i.e. 100%. Despite this, you will see loads of electrical heating systems advertised that cleverly imply that they are more economical, filled with special gel/clay etc.

The bottom line is that with all electrical heating the cost of producing heat is exactly the same.

If it is possible to get gas connected, that will be the best long term solution in that it will enhance the value of your property.

Cardew - Has granny got her bar fire out yet?

As the OP said the oil filled heater is doing a better job than the existing heaters, a couple things to look at are;

Have you got the thermostat set higher on the oil filled radiator (why it feels its doing a better job).
Is your existing panel heaters underpowered (a 1kW heater wont give out as much heat as a 2kW heater).

As the above posts say, all electric heating is 100% efficient at the point of use, if you put 1kW of electricity in you get 1kW of heat out (with the exception of heat pumps). Think of it like a car, the bigger the engine the faster it can go - on the flip side, the bigger the engine the more fuel it uses.

I am currently using wall mounted Berry Magicoal Electric panel heaters I won off ebay. They are 1.2kW, have a timer and a thermostat. The reason I got them was the timer. I used to have 1.2kW oil filled panel heaters leaving them on medium all the time to stop the room getting too cold, turning them up full in the evenings. Both of these gave out a similar amount of heat.

thills

Find the draughts, insulate as much as you can, keep the heat you paid for, in your property!

Hi All,

I thought I'd post an update on electric heating, after two attempts to get planning for a heat pump, I gave up.
I have no gas!

Storage heaters aren't much good for me, I'm out all day, so it had to be direct/instant electric - the worst for cost possible!!!!!

I kept the E7 tariff, Scottish power off an E7 with 3.7p night & 8.1p day, so no point in dumping the E7.
The flat is 78M2, D/Glazed, cavity brick etc.

I installed 5 x 2KW clauden wireless heater, a big overkill really, and use 2 clauden TX controlers.
The E7 rate covers the 200 litre hot water and early morning warm up.
The system is in two zones, bedroom & living, so with a bit of thought, you can heat only the needed zone.
The 10KW warms the place up from 5 to warm in about 10 minutes, about as quick as making a cup of tea! so you can pretty much heat on demand only, when home.

The 5 heaters and 2 controllers cost £650.00, from Dealec, it's all plug in so no other costs involved.

THERE IS NO WAY THIS BEATS GAS COSTS

But, if your lifestyle suits, the initial cost is dirt cheap, the maintenance costs are zero, and the efficiency is 100%.
Just don't get conned into panel heaters, costing £100s each, that do nothing more than a £20 convector!!!

I can't have GCH, or I would, but I'm not unhappy that I don't have a heat pump!
I think one addition, might be a big fan assisted storage heater, for mainly weekend use, oddly, no manufacture will give any data on the heat loss when the fan isn't on?
What you need, is a really good heat store, topped up at night rate, that does not leak heat.

Anyone tried anything?

TH

pothole50

I also looked at other forms of heaters fan,panel,oil,oil free and still cant seem to get it right, with a cost and comfort to suit.
I did come across this on the web http://www.electrorad.co.uk/runningcosts.html

The running cost 2.6p an hour but if you look at the tests they did I am sure I could duplicate this with any old heater shut in a modern well insulated room no draughts on Economy 10 for 120 hours, try and duplicate that in my 56 year old 3 bed semi with no cavity wall.

With my new heater the most electricity pulled is the initial startup, my Oil free 3kw Dimplex with the fancy named Climate control system, starts at 3kw, drops down to 2kw two degrees below setting, 1kw one degree below temperature set, them off when temp reached, then ticks over at 1kw if needed
Was I drawn in by the hype I probably was, but like driving a car the petrol you use depends on how you drive it, and talking of cars and travelling from A to B is the heat coming out of my heater the only type of heating thats free!!!, being a by product of the journey I had to make.

pothole

Cardew

thills wrote: »

Find the draughts, insulate as much as you can, keep the heat you paid for, in your property!

Hi All,

I thought I'd post an update on electric heating, after two attempts to get planning for a heat pump, I gave up.
I have no gas!

Storage heaters aren't much good for me, I'm out all day, so it had to be direct/instant electric - the worst for cost possible!!!!!

I kept the E7 tariff, Scottish power off an E7 with 3.7p night & 8.1p day, so no point in dumping the E7.
The flat is 78M2, D/Glazed, cavity brick etc.

I installed 5 x 2KW clauden wireless heater, a big overkill really, and use 2 clauden TX controlers.
The E7 rate covers the 200 litre hot water and early morning warm up.
The system is in two zones, bedroom & living, so with a bit of thought, you can heat only the needed zone.
The 10KW warms the place up from 5 to warm in about 10 minutes, about as quick as making a cup of tea! so you can pretty much heat on demand only, when home.

The 5 heaters and 2 controllers cost £650.00, from Dealec, it's all plug in so no other costs involved.

THERE IS NO WAY THIS BEATS GAS COSTS

But, if your lifestyle suits, the initial cost is dirt cheap, the maintenance costs are zero, and the efficiency is 100%.
Just don't get conned into panel heaters, costing £100s each, that do nothing more than a £20 convector!!!

I can't have GCH, or I would, but I'm not unhappy that I don't have a heat pump!
I think one addition, might be a big fan assisted storage heater, for mainly weekend use, oddly, no manufacture will give any data on the heat loss when the fan isn't on?
What you need, is a really good heat store, topped up at night rate, that does not leak heat.

Anyone tried anything?

TH

Excellent post!

This is the message a couple of us have been trying to get across for years on MSE.

You can have a powerful and flexible electrical heating system for very little money, rather than spend £thousands on some of these hyped up 'systems' that give out exactly the same heat.

Indeed there is an argument that for some people the zero maintenance costs of electrical heating over a long term might not be much more expensive than gas. Whilst gas running costs are obviously less, gas CH is far more expensive to install, has a shorter life, and requires servicing/maintenance.

stickman

thills wrote: »

Find the draughts, insulate as much as you can, keep the heat you paid for, in your property!

Hi All,

I thought I'd post an update on electric heating, after two attempts to get planning for a heat pump, I gave up.
I have no gas!

Storage heaters aren't much good for me, I'm out all day, so it had to be direct/instant electric - the worst for cost possible!!!!!

I kept the E7 tariff, Scottish power off an E7 with 3.7p night & 8.1p day, so no point in dumping the E7.
The flat is 78M2, D/Glazed, cavity brick etc.

I installed 5 x 2KW clauden wireless heater, a big overkill really, and use 2 clauden TX controlers.
The E7 rate covers the 200 litre hot water and early morning warm up.
The system is in two zones, bedroom & living, so with a bit of thought, you can heat only the needed zone.
The 10KW warms the place up from 5 to warm in about 10 minutes, about as quick as making a cup of tea! so you can pretty much heat on demand only, when home.

The 5 heaters and 2 controllers cost £650.00, from Dealec, it's all plug in so no other costs involved.

THERE IS NO WAY THIS BEATS GAS COSTS

But, if your lifestyle suits, the initial cost is dirt cheap, the maintenance costs are zero, and the efficiency is 100%.
Just don't get conned into panel heaters, costing £100s each, that do nothing more than a £20 convector!!!

I can't have GCH, or I would, but I'm not unhappy that I don't have a heat pump!
I think one addition, might be a big fan assisted storage heater, for mainly weekend use, oddly, no manufacture will give any data on the heat loss when the fan isn't on?
What you need, is a really good heat store, topped up at night rate, that does not leak heat.

Anyone tried anything?

TH

This looks like what I am after, Can you tell me how long you keep the heaters on during the peak periods ie when you come home and how long does the room stay warm for, is it enough to last the evening before going to bed. Also with regard to E7 is it cheaper than standard rate bearing in mind that peak rate on E7 is more than std rate even taking into account the cheap off peak of E7

Cardew

stickman wrote: »

Also with regard to E7 is it cheaper than standard rate bearing in mind that peak rate on E7 is more than std rate even taking into account the cheap off peak of E7

Without knowing any figures, subjectively I would have thought a non-E7 tariff would be cheaper.

You really need to go on a comparison website and calculate the percentage 'break even' point. Even allowing that the hot water will be heated at E7 rates, it depends how early you get up in the morning and thus how much heat on cheap rate you use.

However everybody will have a different ratio of cheap rate to day rate.

stickman

Cardew wrote: »

Without knowing any figures, subjectively I would have thought a non-E7 tariff would be cheaper.

You really need to go on a comparison website and calculate the percentage 'break even' point. Even allowing that the hot water will be heated at E7 rates, it depends how early you get up in the morning and thus how much heat on cheap rate you use.

However everybody will have a different ratio of cheap rate to day rate.

Thanks, at the moment only cheap rate benefit is between 0500-0730, both at work all day come home and just lukewarm rooms. Have checked comparison sites and you are correct (again!) would be cheaper off E7 go to std rate,saving in peak time usage outweighs cheap rate of E7.
Now to get system same or similar to thills on this thread. Only concern is how long to keep heaters on when we come home and how long does it last, hopefully for the whole evening.