2.8 million delaying parenthood due to housing costs

lostinrates

Orpheo wrote: »

Forgive me, my entire first paragraph was (I thought obviously otherwise my very last sentence would be hypocritical) verily tongue-in-cheek. I do not begrudge fertility treatment although I do think that it needs to be done a little differently.

Apologies for my failure of sense of humour..I read it wrong. I think it needs to be done a lot differently. It seems to me scandalous I could be helped, at great expense, to ''produce'' children who may have a tendency to my physical problems..not only for the sake of the children, but also for the tax payer who may have to pay for their medical care too. If it happened naturally then nature is giving it a chance, to force the issue seems selfish to me.

Orpheo

lostinrates wrote: »

Apologies for my failure of sense of humour..I read it wrong. I think it needs to be done a lot differently. It seems to me scandalous I could be helped, at great expense, to ''produce'' children who may have a tendency to my physical problems..not only for the sake of the children, but also for the tax payer who may have to pay for their medical care too. If it happened naturally then nature is giving it a chance, to force the issue seems selfish to me.

The lower age limit on IVF imposed by some trusts is ludicrous as it excludes those most likely to succeed. I can only imagine my foaming rantings if I were involved in a meeting where that policy was decided.

ploder

Won't this trend just lead to an increase in immigration? Since this country is said to have an aging population young are needed to pay pensions.

Orpheo

lostinrates wrote: »

I also think that as a society we become more fearful of responsibility that goes with parenthood, and more judgemental of others.

I agree with this entirely, but I will be more pointed. In the 85s-noughties your twenties became the new teens and in the noughties your thirties became the new teens. Nobody wants to grow up. People are selfish. Selfishness has become more than acceptable and our attitudes are reinforced by the media, treat yourself, indulge yourself, you're worth it, these are too good to share, why wait?

I don't believe that all those who are 'waiting' to have children are saving up, they are waiting until they have acquired more stuff. Are some people fearful of the responsibility of parenthood? Absolutely! They are downright chicken $#!t scared of it and they dress it up with, "I know better."

ninky_2

Orpheo wrote: »

I don't believe that all those who are 'waiting' to have children are saving up, they are waiting until they have acquired more stuff. Are some people fearful of the responsibility of parenthood? Absolutely! They are downright chicken $#!t scared of it and they dress it up with, "I know better."

fearful? or rational? it's great you are happy with your family. however, i certainly don't think becoming a parent requires any degree of bravery. it's just a biological reality in many cases.

personally i wouldn't want to have a child unless i could offer it a fantastic life. i don't think i'm in a position to do that so i don't want to bring an innocent life into the world. your judgement is different. perhaps you think the gift of life and love are enough. personally i don't but i respect that difference of viewpoint.

Percy1983

My better half and I are 2 of the waiting longer brigade.

In short we are going for house, marriage, children.

No we are stuck at stage 1 really, we had to follow the career path to have anything like the income needed to buy a house, as it is being young and training means you will get ripped off from every direction really, rubbish wages and ridiculous car insurance prices plus trying to enjoy life a little while young will basically lead to debts. We are now at the point of good incomes due to hard work earlier and the debts are going fast and saving will be fast so the house isn't too far away. Luckily we haven't lost sight of what a wedding is so won't be spending stupid amounts on a wedding (less than £2k hopefully) and then children.

In short we would be married with children by now if we took no responsibility, but we are being responsible for ourselves so we have to wait.

nomoreboomandbust

having children is overated, not at all like it says in the brochure !

Waited over 4 years to have children after marrying, was hassled constantly by both sets of grandparents-when are you going to have a baby, isn't it time you had a baby,etc...

We wanted to save a bit of money before having children, but the grandparents said they would help out with childcare, in fact they were fighting over who would do it !

But when the crunch came, we were left in limbo, one set of grandparents moved to sunny spain nine months after our child was born and the other set didn't want to know once their prodigal son announced they were having a child as well.

What I am saying is that you also need a good family network around you to help out, otherwise it can become very difficult.

Orpheo

ninky wrote: »

fearful? or rational? it's great you are happy with your family.

Fearful. It is normal that I am happy with my family. If you work hard at your family then happy is easy.

ninky wrote: »

however, i certainly don't think becoming a parent requires any degree of bravery.

Neither do I, but I am very used to children. Many people are scared of children,an observable fact.

ninky wrote: »

personally i wouldn't want to have a child unless i could offer it a fantastic life.

How can you define a fantastic life? Is a fantastic life just full of good things? I merely provide my daughter with love, care, shelter, nutrition, education and values. Hopefully just enough to enable her to define her own life.

ninky wrote: »

i don't think i'm in a position to do that so i don't want to bring an innocent life into the world. your judgement is different. perhaps you think the gift of life and love are enough. personally i don't but i respect that difference of viewpoint.

This is a bit psuedo-religious. Life isn't a gift, it is an imperative, we continue through reproduction. All I say is that children don't ask to be born, so if you have children, man up and take responsibility. What exactly do you think children should be given? I think that, aside from love and basic human needs, they should be given the education and confidence to make their own way as adults. That's it. I won't assume that you believe that children require stuff because you haven't said it. In fact, you haven't said anything other than you think that I perhaps believe in some ephemeral gift of life and love.

Why should we reduce having children to some moral dilemma when it is an existential imperative?

If you have voluntarily removed yourself from the gene pool then you have committed genetic suicide, I might argue that you have failed at life. Your genetic material will cease to exist, instead the genetic material of the breeding chav and the breeding stupid will replace it. Congratulations, you have abused your intelligence to ensure the evolution of the unfit.

Watch Idiocracy, a film starring Luke Wilson.

Orpheo

Percy1983 wrote: »

My better half and I are 2 of the waiting longer brigade.

In short we are going for house, marriage, children.

No we are stuck at stage 1 really, we had to follow the career path to have anything like the income needed to buy a house, as it is being young and training means you will get ripped off from every direction really, rubbish wages and ridiculous car insurance prices plus trying to enjoy life a little while young will basically lead to debts. We are now at the point of good incomes due to hard work earlier and the debts are going fast and saving will be fast so the house isn't too far away. Luckily we haven't lost sight of what a wedding is so won't be spending stupid amounts on a wedding (less than £2k hopefully) and then children.

In short we would be married with children by now if we took no responsibility, but we are being responsible for ourselves so we have to wait.

You are merely justifying your choices (and I have no problem with your choices) by convincing yourself that it is the responsible thing to do and therefore the implication is that to do otherwise (other people's choices) is irresponsible. We had our daughter at what you would consider to be the wrong time, but you would be entirely wrong. Our daughter has not held us back, she has motivated us and made us work harder. We avoided debt (except for a 2X income mortgage) and lived within our means. We bought our own house, twice, we currently do not own our own home but that is because we sold in January 2009 for a job move and decided to stay out of the market while house prices are falling, we are able to step back in at any time we choose.

I congratulate you on aiming at keeping your wedding costs down. £2k is ambitious though! We did it on £4K and it was still a wonderful day. We had a low key reception, a fine meal in a nice hotel with a pianist. We provided our own wine because it was cheaper to buy our own (better quality) wine than have the hotel provide it, even with the hotel charging a £5 corkage fee per bottle. We made our own invitations and wedding favours. I had made room in the budget for whatever wedding dress my wife chose. She chose to buy a second hand one for less than £100, bless her, and there is no way you would have known it to be so unless she told you.

ukcarper

vaporate wrote: »

Evidently, the tories are doing just this with the proposed 9k a year tuition fees which will most likely not be paid back before being wiped clean, assuming it will cost 54k for a 3 year degree...

Says it all really.

Lastly, I worked in the public sector for 6 months and witnessed the waste of tax payers money on stupid surveys/posters and what have you.

No lies from me.

Do students ned £173 a week to live on?