Early-retirement wannabe

shinytop

garmeg said:

cfw1994 said:

Clive_Woody said:

There will not be a legally mandated vaccine, stop taking everything you see on YouTube seriously.

The vaccines that are currently being developed are in many cases based on already approved vaccines (very similar underlying structure), hence they are able to look at accelerated development pathways as safety exposure data is already available. Regulatory and ethical reviews are as rigorous as ever, as they should be.

The Daily Mail, Facebook, Youtube, Whatsapp, Trump, etc....etc not reliable source of news or updates, especially when it comes to drug/vaccine development. It is depressing to see how many supposedly intelligent people believe any old nonsense they see shared around.

People are frightened by this pandemic and this is promoting irrational and often idiotic behaviour from once rational people. Scientists/medics want to help, they are not out to get you. Forget Hollywood and it's portrayal or the Pharma industry as the Big Evil.

Well, I hope you are right.....but there is zero way I would be the first volunteer for a vaccine trial.
I am NOT a "conspiracy theorist", but I do think things are being rushed in order to try to get a solution, and even if a shiny new vaccine may hold the key to preventing Covid-19 from killing me, I do not believe the trials will in any way be lengthy or thorough enough in the next 6-9 months to give decent guarantees there will be no other, perhaps serious, issues caused by taking them.
Yes, one can point to them being based on known existing medicines, but not in the concoction that will be presented for use.

This is one interesting read - perhaps a little slightly conspiracy-theoryist for some of you, but do read up (google is your friend, plenty of articles when I looked last week) on Moderna's Chief Medical Officer (& the CEO too) selling most of his shares in the company - would you really do that whilst bringing a solution to market to solve the World's huge 2020 problem if you trusted in it?
Then perhaps read this article - "Moderna, a company that (this is not a joke) has never once successfully brought a drug to market".
Big Pharma is a challenge to keep up with.  Follow the money.

& thanks to those of you who do take up trial places, I seriously wish you all the best - there will be a solution, & I hope that my reticence is overly cautious.

I get the flu jab every year, it is a different flu strain every year (I believe) so not much time to get that tried and tested really.

I am more than happy to take the covid vaccine (trial) too.

I am more worried about the naming of the disease as Covid-19. Are they expecting a Covid-20, Covid-21 etc?

No, it's WHO convention.  COrona VIrus Disease 2019.  A non geographic name to stop some idiot calling it the Chinese Virus or Kung Flu. 

And I'm going to volunteer for the vaccine trial if they'l have me.  I view it in the same way as giving blood; some risk but for the greater good. 

paulo10

What happened to Marine Life? I haven't seen him posting recently. Did he ever retire or did he continue to put off each year?

atush

shin

No, it's WHO convention.  COrona VIrus Disease 2019.  A non geographic name to stop some idiot calling it the Chinese Virus or Kung Flu. 

And I'm going to volunteer for the vaccine trial if they'l have me.  I view it in the same way as giving blood; some risk but for the greater good. 

Id volunteer if i lived on the Mainland.  They are taking over 60's now btw.

"How can you be sure that vaccine tests are as rigorous as ever? "

It is in Phase 3 trials.  Which means That it has already been tested for safety and dosage among thousands.  Phase 3 is to determine how effective it is in producing neutrilizing antibodies.

As a fomer employee of Dr Toni Fauci when it is released i'll be lined up to take it.

Quite shocked how many normally intelligent folks here are anti vaxers

Clive_Woody

JoeEngland said:

Clive_Woody said:

There will not be a legally mandated vaccine, stop taking everything you see on YouTube seriously.

The vaccines that are currently being developed are in many cases based on already approved vaccines (very similar underlying structure), hence they are able to look at accelerated development pathways as safety exposure data is already available. Regulatory and ethical reviews are as rigorous as ever, as they should be.

The Daily Mail, Facebook, Youtube, Whatsapp, Trump, etc....etc not reliable source of news or updates, especially when it comes to drug/vaccine development. It is depressing to see how many supposedly intelligent people believe any old nonsense they see shared around.

People are frightened by this pandemic and this is promoting irrational and often idiotic behaviour from once rational people. Scientists/medics want to help, they are not out to get you. Forget Hollywood and it's portrayal or the Pharma industry as the Big Evil.

We don't know if it will be legally mandated, but for the record my view is not based on YouTube videos, FB, Daily Mail etc. I can't predict the future any better than others, however, I think a legally mandated vaccine is possible because of how fearful the govt is over Covid and the relentless media coverage of it which puts it out of all perspective. Only time will tell.

How can you be sure that vaccine tests are as rigorous as ever? Given the huge emotional and political pressure on getting a vaccine out in record time, I think it's reasonable to be sceptical about whether testing and regulatory approval will be as stringent as it should be. I'm no anti-vaxxer, but would want to wait at least 6 months after the vaccine(s) have been administered to the general public before even considering having one myself. Even then, considering the apparently high level of natural immunity in the population I don't know if there would be a benefit for me to have it.

You: "People are frightened by this pandemic and this is promoting irrational and often idiotic behaviour from once rational people."

I agree with this, because the media, govt and general public have in many ways become irrational over what is in terms of death rate not much worse than a bad flu season. As for the big pharma thing, there are always people with fringe views like anti-vaxxers, 5G conspiracy theorists etc.

How can you be sure that vaccine tests are as rigorous as ever? - because I work in clinical research and have done so for more than 20 years after completing my PhD studies. I am actively involved in Covid-19 vaccine and treatment development and have been involved in discussions with government regulatory authorities (including MHRA as part of the government combined task force).

There is no let up in regulations or rigorous review of data for approvals. Ignore Russia who have gone rogue. In UK, Europe and USA, regulatory bodies will fast track reviews - which means they prioritise these over other products - they go to the front of the queue, they do not skip data, ignore adverse events (side effects) or grant approvals without being confident of efficacy and safety of the product.

There has never been a legally mandated vaccine in the UK and I see no evidence suggesting this is going to change...other than crazed conspiracy theorists making up nonsense to provoke fear and try and get people to support anti-vax ideology.

Clive_Woody

cfw1994 said:

Clive_Woody said:

There will not be a legally mandated vaccine, stop taking everything you see on YouTube seriously.

The vaccines that are currently being developed are in many cases based on already approved vaccines (very similar underlying structure), hence they are able to look at accelerated development pathways as safety exposure data is already available. Regulatory and ethical reviews are as rigorous as ever, as they should be.

The Daily Mail, Facebook, Youtube, Whatsapp, Trump, etc....etc not reliable source of news or updates, especially when it comes to drug/vaccine development. It is depressing to see how many supposedly intelligent people believe any old nonsense they see shared around.

People are frightened by this pandemic and this is promoting irrational and often idiotic behaviour from once rational people. Scientists/medics want to help, they are not out to get you. Forget Hollywood and it's portrayal or the Pharma industry as the Big Evil.

Well, I hope you are right.....but there is zero way I would be the first volunteer for a vaccine trial.
I am NOT a "conspiracy theorist", but I do think things are being rushed in order to try to get a solution, and even if a shiny new vaccine may hold the key to preventing Covid-19 from killing me, I do not believe the trials will in any way be lengthy or thorough enough in the next 6-9 months to give decent guarantees there will be no other, perhaps serious, issues caused by taking them.
Yes, one can point to them being based on known existing medicines, but not in the concoction that will be presented for use.

This is one interesting read - perhaps a little slightly conspiracy-theoryist for some of you, but do read up (google is your friend, plenty of articles when I looked last week) on Moderna's Chief Medical Officer (& the CEO too) selling most of his shares in the company - would you really do that whilst bringing a solution to market to solve the World's huge 2020 problem if you trusted in it?
Then perhaps read this article - "Moderna, a company that (this is not a joke) has never once successfully brought a drug to market".
Big Pharma is a challenge to keep up with.  Follow the money.

& thanks to those of you who do take up trial places, I seriously wish you all the best - there will be a solution, & I hope that my reticence is overly cautious.

Moderna is a young-small biotech (less than 10 years old) so not exactly a great choice to use a "typical" example, this company was cherry picked by the conspiracy theorists to use as a negative example to back up their nonsense. 

Try looking at the success rate of some of their Covid opposition - Pfizer, AZ, Jansen (J&J), GSK, CSL, Sanofi and others, see if their CEOs are off-loading shares. Google is your friend unless you cherry pick the data that suits your argument rather than looking at the full picture.

barnstar2077

I am in no way an anti vaxxer either.  Nor have I ever used social media for anything more than swapping the odd cute dog picture (I don't mean the dog is odd.)

I didn't read or see anything regarding the government forcing everyone to be vaccinated.  I just assumed that they would, the same way they closed restaurants, made people stay at home etc.

I am glad that a lot of people are eager to get vaccinated in record time.  I would prefer to wait a while first though, each to their own.

JoeEngland

Clive_Woody said:

JoeEngland said:

Clive_Woody said:

There will not be a legally mandated vaccine, stop taking everything you see on YouTube seriously.

The vaccines that are currently being developed are in many cases based on already approved vaccines (very similar underlying structure), hence they are able to look at accelerated development pathways as safety exposure data is already available. Regulatory and ethical reviews are as rigorous as ever, as they should be.

The Daily Mail, Facebook, Youtube, Whatsapp, Trump, etc....etc not reliable source of news or updates, especially when it comes to drug/vaccine development. It is depressing to see how many supposedly intelligent people believe any old nonsense they see shared around.

People are frightened by this pandemic and this is promoting irrational and often idiotic behaviour from once rational people. Scientists/medics want to help, they are not out to get you. Forget Hollywood and it's portrayal or the Pharma industry as the Big Evil.

We don't know if it will be legally mandated, but for the record my view is not based on YouTube videos, FB, Daily Mail etc. I can't predict the future any better than others, however, I think a legally mandated vaccine is possible because of how fearful the govt is over Covid and the relentless media coverage of it which puts it out of all perspective. Only time will tell.

How can you be sure that vaccine tests are as rigorous as ever? Given the huge emotional and political pressure on getting a vaccine out in record time, I think it's reasonable to be sceptical about whether testing and regulatory approval will be as stringent as it should be. I'm no anti-vaxxer, but would want to wait at least 6 months after the vaccine(s) have been administered to the general public before even considering having one myself. Even then, considering the apparently high level of natural immunity in the population I don't know if there would be a benefit for me to have it.

You: "People are frightened by this pandemic and this is promoting irrational and often idiotic behaviour from once rational people."

I agree with this, because the media, govt and general public have in many ways become irrational over what is in terms of death rate not much worse than a bad flu season. As for the big pharma thing, there are always people with fringe views like anti-vaxxers, 5G conspiracy theorists etc.

How can you be sure that vaccine tests are as rigorous as ever? - because I work in clinical research and have done so for more than 20 years after completing my PhD studies. I am actively involved in Covid-19 vaccine and treatment development and have been involved in discussions with government regulatory authorities (including MHRA as part of the government combined task force).

There is no let up in regulations or rigorous review of data for approvals. Ignore Russia who have gone rogue. In UK, Europe and USA, regulatory bodies will fast track reviews - which means they prioritise these over other products - they go to the front of the queue, they do not skip data, ignore adverse events (side effects) or grant approvals without being confident of efficacy and safety of the product.

There has never been a legally mandated vaccine in the UK and I see no evidence suggesting this is going to change...other than crazed conspiracy theorists making up nonsense to provoke fear and try and get people to support anti-vax ideology.

I hope you're right about the stringency of the approval process. As for legally mandated vaccines, we don't have any yet but last year Matt Hancock suggested it might happen for schoolchildren, so it's hardly beyond the bounds of possibility or the preserve of conspiracy nuts. Only a few months ago many of us would have dismissed the idea that wearing face masks would become compulsory.

cfw1994

Clive_Woody said:

cfw1994 said:

Clive_Woody said:

There will not be a legally mandated vaccine, stop taking everything you see on YouTube seriously.

The vaccines that are currently being developed are in many cases based on already approved vaccines (very similar underlying structure), hence they are able to look at accelerated development pathways as safety exposure data is already available. Regulatory and ethical reviews are as rigorous as ever, as they should be.

The Daily Mail, Facebook, Youtube, Whatsapp, Trump, etc....etc not reliable source of news or updates, especially when it comes to drug/vaccine development. It is depressing to see how many supposedly intelligent people believe any old nonsense they see shared around.

People are frightened by this pandemic and this is promoting irrational and often idiotic behaviour from once rational people. Scientists/medics want to help, they are not out to get you. Forget Hollywood and it's portrayal or the Pharma industry as the Big Evil.

Well, I hope you are right.....but there is zero way I would be the first volunteer for a vaccine trial.
I am NOT a "conspiracy theorist", but I do think things are being rushed in order to try to get a solution, and even if a shiny new vaccine may hold the key to preventing Covid-19 from killing me, I do not believe the trials will in any way be lengthy or thorough enough in the next 6-9 months to give decent guarantees there will be no other, perhaps serious, issues caused by taking them.
Yes, one can point to them being based on known existing medicines, but not in the concoction that will be presented for use.

This is one interesting read - perhaps a little slightly conspiracy-theoryist for some of you, but do read up (google is your friend, plenty of articles when I looked last week) on Moderna's Chief Medical Officer (& the CEO too) selling most of his shares in the company - would you really do that whilst bringing a solution to market to solve the World's huge 2020 problem if you trusted in it?
Then perhaps read this article - "Moderna, a company that (this is not a joke) has never once successfully brought a drug to market".
Big Pharma is a challenge to keep up with.  Follow the money.

& thanks to those of you who do take up trial places, I seriously wish you all the best - there will be a solution, & I hope that my reticence is overly cautious.

Moderna is a young-small biotech (less than 10 years old) so not exactly a great choice to use a "typical" example, this company was cherry picked by the conspiracy theorists to use as a negative example to back up their nonsense. 
Try looking at the success rate of some of their Covid opposition - Pfizer, AZ, Jansen (J&J), GSK, CSL, Sanofi and others, see if their CEOs are off-loading shares. Google is your friend unless you cherry pick the data that suits your argument rather than looking at the full picture.

Moderna is one of the ones developing the vaccine, no?   
Or are you saying that you're happy with a "Big Pharma" vaccine but would be cautious about a small biotech firm doing the same?

barnstar2077 said:

I am in no way an anti vaxxer either.  Nor have I ever used social media for anything more than swapping the odd cute dog picture (I don't mean the dog is odd.)

I didn't read or see anything regarding the government forcing everyone to be vaccinated.  I just assumed that they would, the same way they closed restaurants, made people stay at home etc.

I am glad that a lot of people are eager to get vaccinated in record time.  I would prefer to wait a while first though, each to their own.

Likewise, & as I said very clearly, I wish them all the best and home my reticence is overly cautious. 
  
Not sure why people equate an entirely reasonable concern at the 'rush' to develop a vaccine with people being "anti-vaxxers".  Maybe in their eyes it is 'unreasonable' - if so, I respect their opinion, and will simply disagree!
We have kids who have been through MMR, a well tested and proven vaccine.   I haven't personally had flu jabs but may in the future.....but my *personal* view is that COVID-19 goes way beyond a regular flu, and just as a small minority who got COVID have since been found to have 'long term' effects (one person I know), I am *personally* concerned that the Great Cure may equally have longer term issues.    

cfw1994

paulo10 said:

What happened to Marine Life? I haven't seen him posting recently. Did he ever retire or did he continue to put off each year?

& yes, this has gone WAY off topic eh!
I believe they did, and checked in, but we seem to have taken this thread to new galaxies!!
I see from his profile he has 'hung up his suit' and last posted in Jan.....I wish him well!

Clive_Woody

cfw1994 said:

Clive_Woody said:

cfw1994 said:

Clive_Woody said:

There will not be a legally mandated vaccine, stop taking everything you see on YouTube seriously.

The vaccines that are currently being developed are in many cases based on already approved vaccines (very similar underlying structure), hence they are able to look at accelerated development pathways as safety exposure data is already available. Regulatory and ethical reviews are as rigorous as ever, as they should be.

The Daily Mail, Facebook, Youtube, Whatsapp, Trump, etc....etc not reliable source of news or updates, especially when it comes to drug/vaccine development. It is depressing to see how many supposedly intelligent people believe any old nonsense they see shared around.

People are frightened by this pandemic and this is promoting irrational and often idiotic behaviour from once rational people. Scientists/medics want to help, they are not out to get you. Forget Hollywood and it's portrayal or the Pharma industry as the Big Evil.

Well, I hope you are right.....but there is zero way I would be the first volunteer for a vaccine trial.
I am NOT a "conspiracy theorist", but I do think things are being rushed in order to try to get a solution, and even if a shiny new vaccine may hold the key to preventing Covid-19 from killing me, I do not believe the trials will in any way be lengthy or thorough enough in the next 6-9 months to give decent guarantees there will be no other, perhaps serious, issues caused by taking them.
Yes, one can point to them being based on known existing medicines, but not in the concoction that will be presented for use.

This is one interesting read - perhaps a little slightly conspiracy-theoryist for some of you, but do read up (google is your friend, plenty of articles when I looked last week) on Moderna's Chief Medical Officer (& the CEO too) selling most of his shares in the company - would you really do that whilst bringing a solution to market to solve the World's huge 2020 problem if you trusted in it?
Then perhaps read this article - "Moderna, a company that (this is not a joke) has never once successfully brought a drug to market".
Big Pharma is a challenge to keep up with.  Follow the money.

& thanks to those of you who do take up trial places, I seriously wish you all the best - there will be a solution, & I hope that my reticence is overly cautious.

Moderna is a young-small biotech (less than 10 years old) so not exactly a great choice to use a "typical" example, this company was cherry picked by the conspiracy theorists to use as a negative example to back up their nonsense. 
Try looking at the success rate of some of their Covid opposition - Pfizer, AZ, Jansen (J&J), GSK, CSL, Sanofi and others, see if their CEOs are off-loading shares. Google is your friend unless you cherry pick the data that suits your argument rather than looking at the full picture.

Moderna is one of the ones developing the vaccine, no?   
Or are you saying that you're happy with a "Big Pharma" vaccine but would be cautious about a small biotech firm doing the same?

barnstar2077 said:

I am in no way an anti vaxxer either.  Nor have I ever used social media for anything more than swapping the odd cute dog picture (I don't mean the dog is odd.)

I didn't read or see anything regarding the government forcing everyone to be vaccinated.  I just assumed that they would, the same way they closed restaurants, made people stay at home etc.

I am glad that a lot of people are eager to get vaccinated in record time.  I would prefer to wait a while first though, each to their own.

Likewise, & as I said very clearly, I wish them all the best and home my reticence is overly cautious. 
  
Not sure why people equate an entirely reasonable concern at the 'rush' to develop a vaccine with people being "anti-vaxxers".  Maybe in their eyes it is 'unreasonable' - if so, I respect their opinion, and will simply disagree!
We have kids who have been through MMR, a well tested and proven vaccine.   I haven't personally had flu jabs but may in the future.....but my *personal* view is that COVID-19 goes way beyond a regular flu, and just as a small minority who got COVID have since been found to have 'long term' effects (one person I know), I am *personally* concerned that the Great Cure may equally have longer term issues.    

I'm saying nothing of the sort. What I'm saying is for conspiracy nuts to dismiss vaccine development because Moderna have no marketed products and someone believes the CEO has sold lots of his shares is nonsense (suggesting he is doing this because the vaccine is unsafe is ludicrous - and if he were selling shares because he saw data that their vaccine didn't work then it would be insider trading and he would be getting a nice little holiday at HM's pleasure if that were the case). As stated, lots of other much longer established and more successful pharma companies, of various sizes, are also working on vaccines and treatments for Covid. Simply focusing on Moderna as the example is cherry picking to suit a conspiracy and fuel paranoia.

Regardless of company size, any new drug product application is reviewed with the same level of detail so I would be equally confident of the level of scrutiny regardless of the size of the company developing the vaccine.