Early-retirement wannabe

Triumph13

atush wrote: »

A DC pension alongside the mtg overpaying wouldnt go amiss.

Even better would be AVCs if you can leverage the DB scheme to take them out tax free. Either way you very thoroughly investigate the possibilities of routing all spare money into a pension rather than the mortgage, then use the pension to pay off the mortgage when you retire.

DairyQueen

OldMusicGuy wrote: »

This is the key to the whole "early retirement" conundrum. I think Mr DQ may sound more like Marine Life, who started this thread, rather than me. It's back to the whole question about what you want to do with your life.

I fell into the corporate world and IT industry by luck more than judgement. As my online name implies, I originally wanted to be a musician. So my personality in my 20s was focused on music and making a career in the music biz. I was rather "alternative" in my outlook and the job was literally just a job to earn money to finance playing in a band. However, that failed and gradually the day job became my career and as I fell into the IT software industry, I found out I liked that world and made a good career in it, ending up in a well-paid but high pressure job.

I became increasingly disillusioned with work about 2 to 3 years ago and that was the point at which I decided on early retirement. I could have changed jobs but instead I decided to stick it out where I was (for some financial reasons) and then give it up completely. Although I was a bit of a "name" in my industry, I never felt fully defined by my work, because (as the song goes), music was my first love.

My career history sounds more like yours (minus the music). I never reached the giddy heights but carved-out a successful career in IT after entering the sector pretty much by accident. However, I became disillusioned with the corporate world at a much younger age than you. Also, I saw what happened to those age 45+ at each round of 'rationalisation' so I began contracting soon after my 40th birthday. That worked well for me for over a decade and it gave me the flexibility to help care for family when the need arose. I have now been 'accidentally' retired (didn't plan that either) for several years and life has been filled with activities and things on the bucket list that fit around family support. I have completed a BA and MA and now volunteer.

Mr DQ's career reads like a script for a corporate high-flyer. He spent most of his 20s in post-grad and then shot-up the corporate ladder. He remained there until his 50s when redundancy forced him to drop to a 3-day week. The extra two days has been filled with networking and full-time job-seeking. Now age 61, he has joined the kind of 'lifestyle consultancy' you mentioned and he either works or networks most week days and often at the weekend.

OldMusicGuy wrote: »

Also my wife is not a "corporate" wife so doesn't enjoy mixing with high-powered corporate types and was feeling increasingly that I was becoming "one of them". Finally, as our only son has just moved out, we are now empty-nesters and I think we both felt that me carrying on working would create an increasing divide between us.

I empathise with Mrs OMG as the role of 'corporate wife' is my idea of hell. Mr DQ is now suggesting that I participate in the kinds of social events that form part of his client networking. I would rather slide down a 20-metre razor blade or have teeth pulled without anaesthesia.

OldMusicGuy wrote: »

All of these things made early retirement a no-brainer for me, but that's because of my personality and our circumstances. I have many other interests as well that are nothing to do with the IT world.

After decades of prioritising work Mr DQ has sidelined all interests that don't involve socialising or travel. He is totally unprepared for life outside of work. The divide is gradually widening as he wishes me to revert to a lifestyle I have abandoned whilst I want nothing more than for him to abandon it too.

OldMusicGuy wrote: »

So I have made a complete break and left it all behind with no regrets, but I wanted to make that break. I have several colleagues that have not, I know a number that just love the high-flying corporate life, and others that would find being retired too boring.

That sounds very familiar.

OldMusicGuy wrote: »

So I think unless Mr DQ reaches his own realization that he needs to give it up, it will be hard to convince him otherwise. Marine Life found he gave it all up too early. All I can suggest is that maybe create some joint plans that you can work toward at some point that will encourage him to wind work down. Maybe encourage him to focus just on the consulting side of things as a lifestyle business (ie do as much or as little as he wants).

The good news is that he is concentrating on consultancy. He makes all the right noises about flexibility and this allowing him the opportunity to continue to work a few days a month in retirement. The bad news is that he is working more, not less, as a result. I have recently been bleating on (far too much) about the danger of breaching his pension LTA, For those fortunate to be in that position this can be a watershed retirement moment but I think Mr DQ may be in the minority who would rather take the tax hit later if the alternative is retirement now.

Any joint planning tends to focus on housing (where? what?) but the 'when?' remains elusive. In the meantime, we compromise our living arrangements (two very modest homes) and living costs (higher than a single property) in order to facilitate Mr DQ's work and my family commitments.

crv1963 wrote: »

I think there is not a huge amount that you can do to get Mr DQ to look at retirement, maybe try to re-package the idea? I had an uncle who had a fear of retiring, thought he'd end up dead very quickly. My Aunt suggested he/ they buy a bigger house in a town he liked visiting and refurbish it, as an ongoing project, join the Parish Council and put his energies into that.

He did so much volunteering he filled most of his week, but she did get to see him of an evening as he wasn't flying all over the world anymore, but her thoughts of long holidays and days out never materialised.

My own Dad retired, went back to work until he was 73. Sadly he didn't get a long retirement nor did my uncle. Maybe their examples are what drives me to try to go before I'm 60?

I have witnessed my uncle (ex corporate) dragging his long-suffering wife around the world since his retirement eight years ago. She has long-since lost her taste for multiple annual trips, and for the constant round of socialising in-between. They are living uncle's retirement dream but at what cost to her? The poor woman is exhausted and has admitted that she is desperate for a quiet afternoon with a cuppa and a book.

I have concluded that you are both right but that the chances of Mr DQ changing are next-to-zero. He will likely continue to work until such time as he is forced out of the workplace by ill-health or ageism.

Not sure if other couples face this kind of difference in later life. I had assumed that Mr DQ (like most sane people) would be looking to retire as soon as financially viable but turns out that he is the opposite of an 'early retirement wannabe'.

For now I will continue to seek ways of reaching my own retirement goals within the constraints imposed by Mr DQ's work but will draw the line at actively supporting that status quo.

cfw1994

DairyQueen wrote: »

For those fortunate to be in that position this can be a watershed retirement moment but I think Mr DQ may be in the minority who would rather take the tax hit later if the alternative is retirement now.

As someone who is looking ahead (not too far, notwithstanding any large fiscal downturn, which I feel is relatively imminent....) to this fortunate position, I cannot comprehend someone who would rather take the hit: I'm using it a s springboard to my impending wind-down from the 'rat-race' of corporate IT....spending far too long perusing these boards nowadays!
Would prefer some 'push' activity (IT companies tend to have a 'reduction in force' every year or two these days) to kick-start me, but missed out on one earlier this year.

I assume Mr DQ could stop paying in to pension and start doing other things with that money.....but it does read like you two are perfectly mis-matched right now! (just kidding, I am sure things are fine!)

JoeEngland

cfw1994 wrote: »

As someone who is looking ahead (not too far, notwithstanding any large fiscal downturn, which I feel is relatively imminent....) to this fortunate position, I cannot comprehend someone who would rather take the hit: I'm using it a s springboard to my impending wind-down from the 'rat-race' of corporate IT....spending far too long perusing these boards nowadays!
Would prefer some 'push' activity (IT companies tend to have a 'reduction in force' every year or two these days) to kick-start me, but missed out on one earlier this year.

I assume Mr DQ could stop paying in to pension and start doing other things with that money.....but it does read like you two are perfectly mis-matched right now! (just kidding, I am sure things are fine!)

Seems like there's a few IT people on this forum. I've been in IT for 30 years and can't wait to give it up. My interest in computers started when I was 16 but it had become the thing I do by the end of university and had changed from a hobby interest to a career path. It's paid reasonably well, though I've never been ambitious (and probably not capable) enough to be a high flyer and earn the big money. When I do give up work in a couple of years then I can focus more on my writing hobby and won't miss the drudgery and nonsense you have to put up with the corporate world. The manager of my team is the most toxic manager I've experienced in my career, and has p####d off a lot of people in the team, several of whom left the organisation or transferred teams because of him. This is the sort of thing that will be a relief to leave behind.

MallyGirl

I have also been in IT for 30 years. Whilst it doesn't thrill me it does pay pretty well and has allowed flexible working when my DD was small and working from home which was good for DD and now also for the dogs. I will stick with it to 60 (9 more years) unless some significant life event happens in the meantime. Redundancy would be great but I can't see it happening (there are only 3 of us that do what I do in a very big company - one vanilla, me as Senior and then a Principal who regularly threatens to leave but never does).

JoeEngland

MallyGirl wrote: »

I have also been in IT for 30 years. Whilst it doesn't thrill me it does pay pretty well and has allowed flexible working when my DD was small and working from home which was good for DD and now also for the dogs. I will stick with it to 60 (9 more years) unless some significant life event happens in the meantime. Redundancy would be great but I can't see it happening (there are only 3 of us that do what I do in a very big company - one vanilla, me as Senior and then a Principal who regularly threatens to leave but never does).

You may get lucky with redundancy at some point. In my experience big organisations aren't always rational and sometimes get rid of niche roles.

OldMusicGuy

DairyQueen wrote: »

After decades of prioritising work Mr DQ has sidelined all interests that don't involve socialising or travel. He is totally unprepared for life outside of work. The divide is gradually widening as he wishes me to revert to a lifestyle I have abandoned whilst I want nothing more than for him to abandon it too.

That does sound challenging, and I sympathize with you not wanting to do the corporate socialiising. Some people love it, I did for a while but then it really palled. Plus the behaviour of many corporate types leaves a lot to be desired when they start waving the expenses about (the whole Presidents' Club fiasco was no surprise to me). I'm sure Mr DQ isn't one of them but too many get a big sense of entitlement that simply isn't warranted (I said I was a bit "alternative" in my outlook).

I think your approach makes sense. Encourage Mr DQ into flexible consulting. I suggest (like others) once he gets close to LTA you stop paying into his pension and simply spend it. Maybe you can find projects to focus on that you might both enjoy that could use the funds while they are coming in. For example, I love cars and bought a classic car prior to retirement. My wife is not a big car nut so I go off to various car shows on my own, but she does enjoy going on touring holidays with me in the classic because it is such fun. So we can plan some joint activities together but she is happy to let me go off and do my own thing as well.

Best of luck. I hope Mr DQ doesn't damage his health with all this work!

MallyGirl

JoeEngland wrote: »

You may get lucky with redundancy at some point. In my experience big organisations aren't always rational and sometimes get rid of niche roles.

I can only hope - with 15 yrs service, and counting, it might be enough to make the break. Just not till DD is at uni.

atush

JoeEngland wrote: »

You may get lucky with redundancy at some point. In my experience big organisations aren't always rational and sometimes get rid of niche roles.

My OH's company used to have in house IT but have now farmed that out.

Marine_life

OldMusicGuy wrote: »

This is the key to the whole "early retirement" conundrum. I think Mr DQ may sound more like Marine Life, who started this thread, rather than me. It's back to the whole question about what you want to do with your life.

I fell into the corporate world and IT industry by luck more than judgement. As my online name implies, I originally wanted to be a musician. So my personality in my 20s was focused on music and making a career in the music biz. I was rather "alternative" in my outlook and the job was literally just a job to earn money to finance playing in a band. However, that failed and gradually the day job became my career and as I fell into the IT software industry, I found out I liked that world and made a good career in it, ending up in a well-paid but high pressure job.

I became increasingly disillusioned with work about 2 to 3 years ago and that was the point at which I decided on early retirement. I could have changed jobs but instead I decided to stick it out where I was (for some financial reasons) and then give it up completely. Although I was a bit of a "name" in my industry, I never felt fully defined by my work, because (as the song goes), music was my first love. Also my wife is not a "corporate" wife so doesn't enjoy mixing with high-powered corporate types and was feeling increasingly that I was becoming "one of them". Finally, as our only son has just moved out, we are now empty-nesters and I think we both felt that me carrying on working would create an increasing divide between us.

All of these things made early retirement a no-brainer for me, but that's because of my personality and our circumstances. I have many other interests as well that are nothing to do with the IT world. So I have made a complete break and left it all behind with no regrets, but I wanted to make that break. I have several colleagues that have not, I know a number that just love the high-flying corporate life, and others that would find being retired too boring. One ex-colleague started a "lifestyle" consulting business and plans to keep doing that as long as he possibly can.

So I think unless Mr DQ reaches his own realization that he needs to give it up, it will be hard to convince him otherwise. Marine Life found he gave it all up too early. All I can suggest is that maybe create some joint plans that you can work toward at some point that will encourage him to wind work down. Maybe encourage him to focus just on the consulting side of things as a lifestyle business (ie do as much or as little as he wants).

To be honest my early retirement conundrum comes from the fact that I climbed the corporate ladder relatively late in my career and having made the leap in status and earnings its then incredibly hard to walk away.
Any regrets I might have mostly relate to the past, and particularly not spending enough time with the children. I don't have any 'current' regrets i.e. about things I might be missing out on now.
I am in a daily wrestling match with my subconscious self about the next steps and while I don't take a 'positive' decision I will continue to drift along in employment. What I really lack is a positive lever one way or the other that makes me either commit to working or early retirement. At the moment I haven't found it.

I am not sure if that will help you but that is where my head is at.