O2 and customer service. An Oxymoron?

ragebe

Does 'customer service' really require an adjective, i.e. 'poor' or 'good'?

Below, is the sorry trail to date with O2 and my dodgy Palm. The fault is that the phone, sometimes will not operate via normal mic/speaker, when used held to the side of the head (there are a few other threads about this on this site and other sites as well, it's a known fault with Palm Pre)

So I emailed O2 to report the fault, via their web site - no phone number - and the response was:

"Hello R....,

Sorry to hear your O2 device isn?t working. Here's what to do to get it
repaired:

As discussed, your O2 device can be sent back to our repair centre via your local O2 store.

Why not try and get a loan phone from our store while yours is being repaired, subject to availability if you leave a £25 deposit. This is fully refundable when you return the loan handset. Please take care of the handset as this deposit will not be refunded if the item is returned as damaged.

When we get your device back we will see if we can repair it.

If it's a manufacturing fault we will repair it free of charge under the manufacturing warranty. The repair should take a maximum of 14 working days.

If we can not repair a manufacturing fault you will receive a new like for like device and if the device is over 28 days old then a reconditioned model will be sent to you.

Before taking your phone to the store please ensure you have completed the following:
- Save your personal information, like numbers, photos, texts and downloads. (To back up your numbers, texts and photos with Bluebook, go to o2.co.uk/bluebook.)
- Back up the handset using the software provided by the handset manufacturer.
- Keep your sim.
- Keep your memory card (if you have one).
- We are not responsible for any of your personal memory cards or accessories sent back to us in error.

Thank you for contacting O2 Returns and Repairs.

Regards,

O2 Repairs and Returns
Getting your query right the first time you email us is very important to us. If your query has not been resolved this time, please reply to this email with the words 'Need More Help' in the subject field.

Telef!nica O2 UK Limited, Registered in England No 1743099. Registered
Office: 260 Bath Road, Slough, Berkshire SL1 4DX."

ragebe

So, I took the phone to an O2 shop, where the sales assistant told me - fortunately whilst I had a witness present - that this was "..a known software fault...." and he would send it off to be repaired. Return would be within "10 working days" better than above.

After nearly 2 x weeks, I get a call from the shop, which meant I had to write to O2 as follows:

Hello

I've just spoken with the manager of your shop in The Sovereign Centre, Boscombe, Bournemouth. He has advised me that the phone's warranty is void, because the phone has a damaged case. However the fault with the phone is software related (a known software issue as your sales representative in the shop told me when I took it in)

I do not accept that I will be charged for a repair to the faulty goods you have sold me. I expect the fault (software) to be corrected and the phone returned to me.

There IS a manufacturing fault and warranties, whilst all very nice, come second to the law in this country. I'm sure you are well aware of the Sale of Goods Act, just in case you're not, I've provided a handy link.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

The 6 years are quite clear. The fault lies n the software and your organisation will not be returning me the phone within the 2 x weeks quoted below.

I will expect a credit on my account, to reflect the loss of the 'Smartphone' as I'm having to use an old Nokia, that lacks all the smart-features of the Palm.

I await your early reply.

Regards,

ragebe

By the way, the reason for not repairing a known software bug? A bit broken off the case. It's not affecting anything, it's a small piece out of the plastic.

ragebe

I copied in the email I sent to O2's customer complaint service, which got an auto-reply, promising a response within 14 days. That email from O2 was dated the 14th of October 2010. I've got three more Auto-Responses from their Complaint Service Review (UK) dated the 17th, 18th and 19th of October 2010. And today, I finally received a letter from them (hoorah)

On the 15th, I received a reply from O2 [EMAIL="mycare@o2mail.co.uk"]mycare@o2mail.co.uk[/EMAIL] with the following:

"
Thank you for contacting o2.

The manager in the The Sovereign Centre is correct in saying that if there is damage to the casing your manufacturing warranty is void. This is put in place directly by the manufacturer and they state that the engineers cannot repair any manufacturing fault unless they first repair the damage to the casing.

In regards to the credit you have mentioned, unfortunately there is no credit due as the contract with o2 is for an airtime agreement and not on the handset. I can appreciate that you have not used the smartphone features while using the nokia, however you have been able to make and receive calls and texts.

Thank you for contacting O2 Returns and Repairs.

Regards,

O2 Repairs and Returns

Getting your query right the first time you email us is very important to us. If your query has not been resolved this time, please reply to this email with the words 'Need More Help' in the subject field....."

I put the bit above in bold and underlined it.

ragebe

So I replied saying:

"Hello O2 Repairs and Returns

Thank you very much for you response. I'm sure your manager is quite correct and you may well be too with regards to what the overseas manufacturer puts in place. However you seem to have missed the bit about what is legally binding on you. The Sale of Goods Act is quite clear, in that the RETAILER (that's you, O2) is legally liable for what is supplied, nothing to do with the manufacturer at all. So, let's put that red herring to one side and return to the legal question, about O2 supplying goods, not fit for purpose.

I've cut and pasted the following from a government web site to assist you in understanding this (I'm sure your in-house legal team have chapter & verse on this)

Relevant or Related Legislation:

Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
Key Facts:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

"Not inherently faulty" "durability"

These are terms that don't appear to apply to O2 supplying a product, with a software fault, that is acknowledged on the manufacturer's website. You also have the slight problem of your employee in the shop in The Sovereign Centre, telling me in front of a witness, that this is a known software problem.

Please arrange for the software to be repaired, such that the product is fit for purpose and durable for the next 6 years."

This brought another auto-response, followed fairly quickly with:

Hi,

Can you please confirm one of the following pieces of information so as we can access your account:

Mobile Number:
Account Number:


Kind Regards,

Returns And Repairs
Even though they quoted the repair number in the subject, they didn't know who I was. Fantastic service O2. To which I responded:

KMMxxxxxxxxxKM seemed to be enough for your last email - below - to access my account.

You don't need my mobile number, you're either deliberately obfuscating or haven't read the rest of the email trail.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're too lazy to read all the stuff already written below.

07720xxxxxx

Another day passes without me able to use my Palm Pre. The only reason I moved to O2 from BT, was because I wanted a Palm Pre. So I don't accept the reasons proffered by O2 as only supplying calls and texts. I could do that with my previous phone, so why would I change supplier, if not to get the added functionality of the Palm Pre?

I'm giving O2, until Friday the 22nd of October 2010 at 1200 to return me, my fully working Palm Pre. After which I will take legal action to recover my property and damages for my time and recompense for loss of acceptable service.

Your sincerely,

The next day I got this:

Hello Mr Rxxx,

Thank you for your enquiry.

I have checked on your repair and unfortunately due to damage your handset was unable to be repaired under warranty without chargeable cost. I can see that you have declined this and therefore the handset has been returned to you unrepaired.

Im sorry to hear of the damage ,should you dispute damage you may wish to speak to the manufacturer themselves for a second opinion however it is unlikely to be different.

As for the fault if you have tried web os doctor as previously suggested during our discussions before it was sent for repair this would negate the fault being software and therefore be a possible physical fault however due to damage our repair centre is unable to proceed further as per warranty guidelines by manufacturer.

I have read your concerns about the sales of goods act and O2 as with all abide by this set of regulations however under the circumstances we cannot offer anything further than what has been discussed at this time.

Kind regards,

Craig
O2 Customer Service.

to which I replied:

"Hello Mr. Craig O2 Customer Service

I think we've rather covered the warranty repair thing to death now. I am not asking you to repair the damage to the handset under warranty repair, I'm asking you to put right, selling me goods that are not fit for purpose, as defined by The Sales Of Goods Act.

I'm not interested in talking to the manufacturer, because O2, as the supplier of the unfit for purpose goods, are the ones legally liable.

I have no idea why you are referring to "web os doctor..." below, this has never cropped up in any conversations I have had with O2, so I can only assume you are confusing me with another customer, which based on my experiences with O2 so far, doesn't surprise me in the least.

"...and therefore the handset has been returned to you unrepaired." Er, no. The handset hasn't been returned to me, repaired or otherwise, so that's another discrepancy in the O2 story. However, Mr. Doug Carter at the shop in Bournemouth, tells me that he has my phone.

"I have read your concerns about the sales of goods act and O2 as with all abide by this set of regulations however under the circumstances we cannot offer anything further than what has been discussed at this time."

This is a bit of a struggle to understand. It appears to be a series of words, written in English but not actually put together in an order that makes sense. Just to help in your own understanding, I personally, have no concerns about The Sale Of Goods Act. I am well aware that the Act is there, to help people like me, being fleeced by companies like O2.

Now, as you're not making any effort to correct this situation, is there any point in my waiting until this Friday, before starting my legal proceedings? The cost to O2, as it stands at the moment, is going to be absolutely minimal. Even if you swapped out the handset for a new one, that would be less than £100 to O2. If I have to go to court, you will have you own legal costs, my out of pocket expenses, my damages, a worsened reputation for customer services and the court costs themselves. Probably several hundred pounds, what's the point? Forget this manufacturer warranty thing, it's a complete red-herring. The law is interested in the Act, not warranties. The Act is clear as to responsibility lying with the supplier, not the manufacturer. I don't want the case replaced/repaired I just want the software bug corrected. Surely there is someone in your organisation who can make a decision on this, rather than this going round in circles, with O2 CSRs just ignoring the salient parts of my missives and harping on about warranties?

Kind regards,...."

zolablue25

Nice. I look forward to you posting their response.

ragebe

So the answer comes back:

The handset returned, as not repaired is because of damage to the handset. Our engineers have to repair any damage to the handset as set out by the manufacturer.
The previous advisor stated that the handset had been returned to you, which is what the repair team state on the tracker with ourselves. If it was booked in via an o2 store and this is the option chosen for return when booking in the handset it will be returned to them directly who will then contact yourself. I apologise for the miscommunication.

The web os mentioned is the webOS Doctor which is software that's used to recover a phone that becomes frozen during a software update.
Customers must connect their Palm Pre phone to a PC to use this software.
In some rare instances a phone can become frozen during the OTA process i.e. if the battery is removed, customer can then use webOS to "unfreeze" their Palm Pre.

Unfortunately we cannot offer to replace the handset for you due to the casing being damaged and as stated previously this can be taken up with the manufacturer as they have put this in place.

Thank you for contacting O2 Returns and Repairs.

Regards,... "

Aaagghhh! Talk about repeating a mantra. Do you think O2 work on the theory that if they employ numpties to constantly repeat the same old line, peeps will get fed up and give up? I do

ragebe

So, I reply:

Still ignoring the only thing that matters eh? THE SALE OF GOODS ACT.

Legal responsibility lies with the supplier NOT THE MANUFACTURER.

O2 are legally responsible to rectify goods supplied that are not fit for the purpose for which they are sold. Everything else you have written about, is irrelevant.

Tomorrow, I will take this to the Ombudsman. I cannot understand your English.

"...The handset returned, as not repaired is because of damage to the handset..."
What on earth is meant by this sentence? Don't bother to answer. I am awaiting an acknowledgement of your legal duties, under THE SALE OF GOODS ACT.

I've copied the information I've already supplied to you below. Doubtless, you intend to ignore it and hope I will go away; that's not going to happen, I assure you.


Relevant or Related Legislation:

Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
Key Facts:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

and they say

"Thanks for emailing us about the repair of your Palm Pre handset.

I can see that you've also email the copy of your concern to our complaints team. They'll investigate your matter and get back to you within five working days.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused to you. I appreciate your patience and cooperation in this matter.

Kind regards

Shikha
O2 Customer Service"

Five working days eh? They blinkin' well don't get back that quickly (unless they mean the auto-reply)

ragebe

She seemed like a nice girl (I can't believe that O2 only employ morons in their contact centres, law of averages says that shouldn't be possible, surely?) so I wrote back:

Hello Shikha

As I've received 4 auto-answers from your Complaints Response Team, all saying they'll be in touch soon, I have little faith in that happening. However thank you for your email,

Kind regards,

R...

(BTW, as you have a 'bucket' email address, do you ever follow best-practice procedures in your contact centres, to route customer comms to most suitable agent? Such as the last one to deal with that customer)

The next day, another polite follow up

Hello R

Thanks for replying to Shikha's email.

Yes R, I'm sure all your queries will definitely be resolved.
They'll get back to you soon.

Thanks for your continued patience with this matter.

Kind regards

Satvinder
O2 Customer Service

ragebe

Well, I eventually colected the phone, from the shop, saw the nice man again who wouldn't look me in the eye, mumbled a bit, gave me my phone back without a word. Took it home plugged in a headset, unplugged the headset and it started working, in the way you'd expect a mobile phone to work. So, seems good. Sadly, it's intermittent. Yesterday, it was back to only working via bluetooth or on speaker-phone and today, I received a letter from O2 with the following delightful information:

Mobile phone number: 07720.....
Dear Mr ,
Firstly may I apologise for the issues you have faced when dealing with 02. I have tried to contact you but have been unable to do so. I can assure you that it is our aim to provide you with the best customer service at all times.

I have answered the points you have raised in your email as follows;

I’m sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the wording used in our correspondence to you.

Please find an easier to understand explanation below
• We will not be fixing or replacing your mobile phone for free.
• Your phone has damage which is not covered by warranty.
• If you do not accept our decision you can get a second opinion from Palm instead.
• We do not agree that 02 are in any breach of the law.

Purely as a goodwill gesture I have raised a credit of £15 to your next bill for two weeks line rental for not having the use of your smart phone.

An investigation into the way your complaint was handled will be looked into and advisors who you have interacted with will be given feedback on the issues you have raised. Unfortunately due to company privacy policy we will be unable to divulge the outcome of this however, I can assure you it will be dealt with most seriously.

Again please accept my sincere apologies and I hope I have been able to answer all of your queries to your satisfaction. However, if you have any other queries regarding this matter please contact us on

08453300684
.
Yours sincerely
02 Complaint Review Service
02 (UK) Limited 260 Bath Road Slough Berkshire SL1 4DX United Kingdom www.o2.co.uk
Registered in England and Wales no. 01743099 Registered Office: 260 Bath Road Slough Berkshire SLI 40X United Kingdom

It's very kind of them to offer me £15 but they clearly don't get it. I actually want the phone to work as it should work and not be fobbed off. So today, I've contacted the Ombudsman (have to go the proper route) and asuming the Ombudsman doesn't help (or get O2 to wake up and stop treating their customers like dirt) the next step is to issue a claim via the small claims court.

ragebe

Email sent today:

Thank you for the letter I received from you today.

Unfortunately, you neglected to actually address it to me, only the house address and there was no name for contact purposes, only a squiggle for a signature.

As O2 seem to wish to evade discharging their legal obligations under the Sales Of Goods Act, I have referred the matter to Otelo.

Please provide me with a deadlock letter.

Your sincerely,

Useful web sites

Otelo http://www.otelo.org.uk/pages/1home.php

and Ofcom http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/telephone/landcomplain