Need advice on returning a matress

OM3

I need some advice on how best to return a mattress

I bought a mattress on eBay
The company sent me the wrong size mattress + they WILL NOT communicate
I had to raise a claim with Paypal - they granted a full refund - BUT I HAVE to have the mattress returned AND give a tracking number

I cannot claim for the costs of returning the mattress
OK, so I know that's how things work - the buyer has to pay for the costs of return and the seller does not have to meet these costs

BUT, it's a DAMN memory foam mattress
It weighs a TON!
It comes with air sucked out of it - even then, it's REALLY heavy
Once opened though, the mattress takes in air and as a result weighs a LOT more then

I think it's *really* unfair that I have to pay for the costs of returning - we're not talking about spending a few pounds at the local post office

Were do I stand? Do I have any rights??
I think the seller should be obliged to arrange the return of the item

OK... so let's say I have to meet the costs of returning - I'm happy to do this - even though I will be at a large financial loss

BUT where and HOW do I do this?
VERY IMPORTANT: I *have* to have a tracking number when returning the item
I have found a website where different couriers will bid on your delivery - I have got prices as cheap as £50 - but these will probably just be one man band companies - no good, I HAVE to send with a proper tracking number - somewhere that can be looked up on a website

Any replies would be great

Thanks


OM

Tim_Deegan

To start with, if the seller gave you the wrong size mattress then they do have to cover the cost of returning the mattress, as this was their error.

It is only Paypal's rules that aren't set up to cover situations like this one. They sort of follow distance selling regs, but you will find that paypal don't read the details properly. And they seem to resond as if it was just an unwanted item.

So the seller should arrange for collection of the mattress, and you should have as little inconvenience as possible, with no financial outlay.

Write to the seller giving them seven days to respond, and that you are taking the matter up with trading standards. Make sure you send it recorded delivery.

Also you should name and shame the seller to stop other people making the same mistake.


One word of advice when you do get your refund. If I were you I would go for a mattress that is sprung with memory foam on top, as these are more supportive, more reliable, and much cooler.

redpete

OM3 wrote: »

Once opened though, the mattress takes in air and as a result weighs a LOT more then

It'll weigh a tiny bit extra, the uncompressed air really weighs very little. It will be significantly larger and more awkward though.

Sorry, can't help on the main query though. Are they UK-based, if so then they would be covered by regulations that would govern whether they should cover the cost of return and should allow you to use small claims to get what they owe you.

Tim_Deegan

redpete wrote: »

It'll weigh a tiny bit extra, the uncompressed air really weighs very little. It will be significantly larger and more awkward though.

For something the size of a mattress couriers go by volume. And for an expaned memory foam mattress this can be very expensive.

Also many couriers have a maximum size in any dimension of 1.5m. And obviously a mattress is over this.

pinkshoes

Have you put into the dispute that you would like the seller to reimburse you for the return postage costs?

What does the business seller state about returns on their advert? A company does not HAVE to pay for returns. They can state that you need to do this.

Just take the hit and send it back for now, and make sure it's tracked. You might find that ebay actually refund the postage to you in the form of an online voucher (they did this for me when a seller sent me some heavy leathers in the wrong size, but wouldn't respond or refund), and if that doesn't happen, you could send a "letter before action" to the company asking them to pay the return delivery, otherwise you'll take them to court for the money.

In the mean time, make sure you leave suitable feedback once it's returned and you have your refund.

Tim_Deegan

pinkshoes wrote: »

Have you put into the dispute that you would like the seller to reimburse you for the return postage costs?

What does the business seller state about returns on their advert? A company does not HAVE to pay for returns. They can state that you need to do this.

Just take the hit and send it back for now, and make sure it's tracked. You might find that ebay actually refund the postage to you in the form of an online voucher (they did this for me when a seller sent me some heavy leathers in the wrong size, but wouldn't respond or refund), and if that doesn't happen, you could send a "letter before action" to the company asking them to pay the return delivery, otherwise you'll take them to court for the money.

In the mean time, make sure you leave suitable feedback once it's returned and you have your refund.

The seller does have to pay for return postage if the item is faulty or not the item you ordered. We are talking about the law here, and not ebay or paypals rules. Although ebay do think they are above the law.

It also doesn't matter what the seller says on their advert. They still have to comply with the law.

JimmyTheWig

redpete wrote: »

It'll weigh a tiny bit extra, the uncompressed air really weighs very little. It will be significantly larger and more awkward though.

I don't think the air will make any difference to the weight.
I know that air isn't weightless, but given that it will be weighed in an atmosphere of air, it will balance out. E.g. if it was somehow filled with helium then it would weigh less than when vacuum packed.

But I agree with Tim that the size will make all the difference with the courier.


How much have you paid out?
How much will it cost to return tracked?

My thinking is that to get the money you have paid out so far back then you can return it tracked and claim through PayPal. To get the return shipping costs back may require the small claims court if they don't play ball.
You need to decide whether it's worth the hassle. You certainly _should_ go down this route as they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. But it's up to you...

shaun_from_Africa

We are talking about the law here, and not ebay or paypals rules. Although ebay do think they are above the law

It's not that ebay or paypal think that they are above the law, simply that they are not law enforcement agencies.
Neither company has any legal right to take any money from the seller apart from the sum initially paid, so they can't do anything about the return costs.

What you have to remember is that the ebay and paypal buyer protection policies are policies that are provided in addition to, and not in place of your statutory rights.
I would go with what JimmytheWig suggests. Return the mattress under the paypal terms, get a refund for your initial payment then see about taking action against the seller to recover your return costs.
You can use moneyclaimonline (I think it now costs £35) and you can add the cost of the claim onto the amount you are trying to recover.

Tim_Deegan

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

I don't think the air will make any difference to the weight.
I know that air isn't weightless, but given that it will be weighed in an atmosphere of air, it will balance out. E.g. if it was somehow filled with helium then it would weigh less than when vacuum packed.

But I agree with Tim that the size will make all the difference with the courier.


How much have you paid out?
How much will it cost to return tracked?

My thinking is that to get the money you have paid out so far back then you can return it tracked and claim through PayPal. To get the return shipping costs back may require the small claims court if they don't play ball.
You need to decide whether it's worth the hassle. You certainly _should_ go down this route as they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. But it's up to you...

If you send it yourself then there is very little chance of getting the money back. Paypal will have taken the money for the mattress out of their account, so at the moment you have the mattress, and they don't have any money.

If as I suspect the seller is someone who just takes the orders and then passes them on to an importer, who then posts them out to the customer. Then in this case they probably have no way of collecting the mattress themselves. So you may need to take legal action to force them to do this.

Tim_Deegan

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

It's not that ebay or paypal think that they are above the law, simply that they are not law enforcement agencies.
Neither company has any legal right to take any money from the seller apart from the sum initially paid, so they can't do anything about the return costs.

What you have to remember is that the ebay and paypal buyer protection policies are policies that are provided in addition to, and not in place of your statutory rights.
I would go with what JimmytheWig suggests. Return the mattress under the paypal terms, get a refund for your initial payment then see about taking action against the seller to recover your return costs.
You can use moneyclaimonline (I think it now costs £35) and you can add the cost of the claim onto the amount you are trying to recover.

The ebay and paypal buyer protection polices are based on the sale of goods act, and distance selling regs, and are not in addition to your statutory rights. There are parts of their buyer and seller protection polices that contain many loopholes and get out clauses, and in some cases are illegal.

The cost of returning the mattress that is unpacked and expanded could be very expensive. So there is no way that the seller should return it, as it could prove very difficult to recover the money. It is up to the seller to arrange collection, and to pay for it.

shaun_from_Africa

Tim,

Paypal buyer protection means that if a buyer wins a dispute and they provide proof that the item has been delivered (or an attempted delivery has been made and the seller refused to accept it), then the buyer will get their money back irrespective of whether there was any money available in the sellers paypal account or not.

It used to be the case that refunds were dependant on there being money available but this changed a couple of years ago.
Now if there is no money, paypal refund themselves and then try to reclaim it from the seller.

There are a few advantages in going down the paypal route first.
1/ OM3 will no longer have a large unwanted mattress in their house,
2/ If it comes to legal action then they will be able to show that they have attempted to minimize their losses,
3/ And lastly (and maybe most importantly), winning any legal action doesn't guarantee getting any money back from the seller.

The ebay and paypal buyer protection polices are based on the sale of goods act, and distance selling regs, and are not in addition to your statutory rights.

Of course they are in addition to your statutory rights.
Neither ebay or paypal have any legal obligation to provide any protection any more that the publishers of a free ad newspaper have to provide any protection.
It is not ebay or paypal who are selling the goods.
Ebay are an advertising medium and paypal are a money transfer service.

and in some cases are illegal

Opinion or do you have a legal ruling to back this up?