Is this really unreasonable?

careinthecommunity

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I guess there's a fine line between being defeatist and being realistic sometimes..:)

100% agree with this, i was trying to point out that it is not unreasonable to suggest that people do think about travelling/relocating for work, which is what IDS is effectivley talking about (travelling).

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Permanent full-time jobs are thin on the ground. Especially for the unskilled. 0-hour contracts, temporary jobs, and part-time work are all realistic possibilities. But travelling 50 miles to and from a day to do them, may not be. And for those with children and childcare costs.. forget it.

i agree, but there are still plenty of unskilled who do work and do travel over an hour to there factory shift on 0 hour contracts just to have a job [lincolshire comes to mind], i am in no way want sweatshops type scenario but business hasnt come into there area, plenty of parents out there currently stuggling, why should the fact that they are being asked to travel make them and more special [i am speaking as a very recent parent]

JemJam

I live and work in Merthyr so I could go on for houuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrs about this, but I won't cos it's late!! IDS said on his interview that he got his info from A Town Called Merthyr on Sky News a few weeks back, which I again could go on about for hours, but I won't!! But all this has stemmed from this god awful show as there was an interview with a couple (if my memory serves correct) who had never taken a bus from Merthyr to Cardiff and claimed they didn't know how to. Not hundreds of people. Not the whole town. One couple. The fact that IDS seems to believe people are actually unaware that they can get a job if they get on a bus, is hilarious!!

I work for a training and employment project so we see people facing issues every day fighting for jobs everywhere, BUT, if you live in the far end of the town it can be a 40 minute bus ride simply into the town centre, let alone then getting to the bus station for Cardiff so your commute has gone from 2 hours a day to pretty much 4 (never mind during the Winter!). The train links however, are much much improved now at every 30 mins, and they will take about 20/30 mins to get to by bus from the outer parts of the town. I think it's around £5.50-£6 a day / £25 ish a week to cardiff which, to someone on min wage 16 hours a week, is a difficult prospect to deal with. Also transport to a lot of parts of Merthyr itself stops after 6/7pm anyway so if you're doing shift work anywhere, even in Merthyr, you're a bit stuffed.

I totally believe people should look further afield for work and I encourage it, but for some people it's just not a viable option - childcare + travel expenses vs staying above the breadline on benefits. Also as someone said earlier, very rarely are jobs bang in the centre of cities and often it takes a while to travel from the station to the venue itself.

In my experience the only people who prefer to work in the town, do so because of childcare worries and finance, not because they're lazy and stupid and don't know how a bus station works. Also everyone is aware of the very large glaring fact that there's barely anything out there anyway and people from every valley, town and city, not to mention people in Cardiff itself, are fighting for these jobs too!

I listened to the Jeremy Vine show about IDS's interview today and did so in great amusement as once again Merthyr takes a beating for its stats. Oh well, we keep on keeping on!!

JemJam

careinthecommunity wrote: »

i agree, but there are still plenty of unskilled who do work and do travel over an hour to there factory shift on 0 hour contracts just to have a job [lincolshire comes to mind], i am in no way want sweatshops type scenario but business hasnt come into there area, plenty of parents out there currently stuggling, why should the fact that they are being asked to travel make them and more special [i am speaking as a very recent parent]

I totally agree with you careinthecommunity, I know several people who travel for zero hour contract work, both friends and clients, and they will do it till there's nothing left to do! But it's not just about going out there and getting the job, there are massive confidence issues with a lot of people who may have never worked before, have been made redundent after 5/10/20/30+ years (which is a huge part of our client base). Some people have such low self esteem after working in the same setting for so long, that the prospect of having to retrain and possibly commute 1-2 hours a day is just very scary! Then there are others who are on the opposite end of the scale that are practically jumping for joy that they get to start all over again:rotfl:, but the people i've encountered who think positive about the situation are often the ones without the financial worries, without the childcare issues, and with the better level of Essential Skills.

Shakethedisease

am in no way want sweatshops type scenario but business hasnt come into there area, plenty of parents out there currently stuggling, why should the fact that they are being asked to travel make them and more special

It doesn't make anyone special. But there's little point in travelling huge distances if it's not going benefit you or your family financially.

I've done it myself in the past as a single parent. Travel costs ate up a large portion of my wages as I live in a small village and all the work was some distance away. But it was on full-time permanent contracts in a few factories in my 20's. Up at 4.30am for the 6.45am shift start, sitting under a lampost at 11.30pm waiting for the last bus on others with the same hour and 15 mins journey home.

But, I wasn't paying private rental rates, and my mum looked after my 2 kids (at the time) all hours. Couldn't have in my wildest dreams have 1) done it now in paying private rental rates, 2) for a part-time/temp/0 hour job 3) paying out the childcare costs for 2 children. Either of those 3 scenarios, individually or together.. Impossible.

careinthecommunity

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You've already been given numerous reasons why it isn't possible financially to relocate nor in many cases even 'commute' to ( for example) that part time job in Argos.

i havent been given any reason why it is impossible to relocate,

as for the 'commute' plenty of people currently do the equivilent commute to work on a day to day basis, i agree travelling an hour a day to work in argos for 3 hours a day is pointless but i am throwing the exact same question back, what do people suggest as an alternative, there are not to many people on this side of the forum that are for totally living off the state benifits

what do you suggest

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You've said a lot about defeatism,

meh .. i am a miserable sod

Shakethedisease wrote: »

how about you inject some optimism and tell us what you would suggest that would go some way towards solving the problem ? And exactly how it IS possible

i honestly cannot come up with an idea that would solve the problem, if i knew that would i be here typing now?

there are too many factors, low paid jobs, no business in the areas mentioned, low skilled workers however i do not think it is unacceptable that people have to consider relocating or commuting for work, dragging it down to the lowest common denominator about working 2 hours a week in argos does not advocate the fact this is bad idea

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Not a personal dig btw.. just, well I'm stumped myself.

didnt read it as such, i am trying to get where everyone else is coming from

careinthecommunity

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It doesn't make anyone special. But there's little point in travelling huge distances if it's not going benefit you or your family financially.

agree totally as a very recent parent, so with the recent anounments of benifit cuts [and the stigma to come] is it still not better to work than rely on benefits, also i dont think working will have a detremental effect on children even if you are financially better off, plenty of studies out there that say we have gone to far in recent years, and lets be honest if more unskilled british people was willing to work it would have an impact on imigration [money/politics aside]

Jacey53

We could always move one of the larger government departments out to Merthyr. Or the head offices of one of the banks we are still subsidising.

There would be lots of jobs - for people who want to relocate.

If the government selected the right ones, then associated businesses would move too.

Of course, the higher your salary, the more likely you are to get a relocation package.

drc

If the unions are upset by his suggestion then how are they expecting people to go out and look for work? Are they thinking that companies will be eagerly flocking to employ people from home? Only in post nuLabour UK would there be uproar at the suggestion that people be a little proactive and actually *OH MY GOSH* travel to get to work. Isn't this what people have been doing for centuries and isn't it the reason we have trains, buses and planes? Weird times....

kabayiri

WhiteHorse wrote: »

Good point.

And yet in the recent budget, the rail companies have been given the go-ahead to increase their extortionate fares still further.

Agreed.

As people like Sir Humphrey as alluded to, the actions of the new transport minister still seem to favour the viewpoint that 'car is king'.

Fact. There will never be enough road space to keep our roads flowing freely. Major and arterial routes around every major UK city are log jammed every rush hour period.

Buses and trains can carry more people for the equivalent energy expenditure.


Here's a differing view.
I have worked recently in 2 places with big IT needs. You will all know their names. Each morning 2 coaches would arrive at set times packed with Indian IT contractors. It seems they realised the benefit of providing bulk transport....

Jonbvn

PasturesNew wrote: »

....unless you're a specialist in something, or have a degree, or work in the banking sector there doing something a bit more clever than admin, you'll be on minimum wage.

The same is true across the UK, if not the whole world.