The Public Sector Cuts - Anyone worried?

steveymp

x12yhp wrote: »

Nurses and paramedics, yes, I agree. Medical doctors... one of the biggest reasons it is sold in schools is because it pays well and is reliable... If medical doctors care so much, they would be standing up and saying that they get paid far too much compared to other medical staff (nurses/paramedics, for example) and that they would take a nice pay cut to bring themselves into line and to help out the public health service, about which they care so much... so who will get the ball rolling!?

OK I'll give you Doctors;) :D:D:D

But some of the Doctors I work with do go the extra mile week in week out and put in 60 -70 hour weeks every week, others granted spend more time at the private hospitals and golf clubs:o

Snoozle

x12yhp wrote: »

Nurses and paramedics, yes, I agree. Medical doctors... one of the biggest reasons it is sold in schools is because it pays well and is reliable... If medical doctors care so much, they would be standing up and saying that they get paid far too much compared to other medical staff (nurses/paramedics, for example) and that they would take a nice pay cut to bring themselves into line and to help out the public health service, about which they care so much... so who will get the ball rolling!?

I don't think there is any shame in wanting to earn a good salary, and doctors have to train long and hard, at great expense, and ultimately have to take the final responsibility for the patients' welfare, so surely that is why they are paid significantly more? To take surgeons as an example - they get paid massive salaries but they are doing a job most people wouldn't be capable of in the first place, and even amongst those who have the intellectual ability, steady hands and nerves of steel, most people wouldn't have the dedication to do the training. So if they get paid a fortune, by and large I think they deserve it.

amandajim36

x12yhp wrote: »

Nurses and paramedics, yes, I agree. Medical doctors... one of the biggest reasons it is sold in schools is because it pays well and is reliable... If medical doctors care so much, they would be standing up and saying that they get paid far too much compared to other medical staff (nurses/paramedics, for example) and that they would take a nice pay cut to bring themselves into line and to help out the public health service, about which they care so much... so who will get the ball rolling!?

you obviously havent seen any of the junior doctors standing crying beacuse their workload is so big, they have so many sick patients too see, are on their seventh night on call in a row and they just dont know how they are going to get everything done. they have worked 24hours with no sleep.
ive seen that, ive seen them at the end of their tether when they have worked 12 hours without even so much as a cup of tea or glass of water, when they are constantly getting bleeped from every ward in the hospital and we are taking about peoples lives in their hands so they are working with a considerable amount of stress.
and junior doctors pay is not a bag salary for the responsibilty they have.
consultants yes they earn a lot but f1 and f2's dont.

and by the way im not a dr im a nurse but i do see the pressure on these doctors every day

Robothell

I qualified as a doctor in 2002 after 5 years in Med School in Belfast. I needed 2 As and a B at A level to get in. I worked in bars and nursing homes through my course to fund my studies and borrowed money to cover the rest. I graduated with about £25,000 of debt. I was fortunate enough that I got a grant to cover my tuition fees (not like today - the biggest scandal I've seen in years).

My first job was covering a specialist unit where I worked an average of 110 hours per week (this was before EWTD was applied to medics) looking after between 15 and 45 high dependency patients. If my salary at that time was averaged over my hours I was earning £4.08 per hour (admittedly after tax, although I did not breach the higher tax bracket at that point). I was earning £6 an hour doing bar work the summer before I started in the hospital - I was earning more money for an easier and less stressful job that I was able to have a life during. In the eight years since qualifying I have paid out approx £200 a year for insurance, £350 a year in professional fees and £350 of union fees. Add to that about £1000 a year for courses, books and further education and a total of about £5000 for professional exams to aim towards a Consultant job. All these come out of my own pocket and only the insurance, union and professional fees are tax deductable.

I think most people would be surprised at doctors' salaries as they are not as high as most realise - comparing to other professionals we are actually among the lowest paid when we stay inside the NHS (and a considerable amount of us do). My best man is a milkman and was genuinely surprised that he took home more pay in an average month that I do. Don't get me wrong, I am paid well for my work but I work over and above my hours and, even now as a senior Registrar, still average about 60+ hours a week. I do not know of a single person working in the Health Service who is in it for the money - there are easier ways to make a fast buck that don't involve trading off such a large chunk of your life. The job has become more and more difficult in recent years with a lot of people looking to find fault in every aspect of your work, demanding certain treatments that may or may not be appropriate and the constant negative media and publicity that we get. Violence and aggression towards staff is also on the up. I've had to replace 3 pairs of glasses that were grabbed off my face, I've been punched in the face 4 times by aggressive patients and I've been spat on by person who objected to my surname as it pegged me as being from the "wrong side of the tracks". Believe me, if it was all for the money I'd have left a long time ago.

This thread is at risk of going off point here - the title is "The Public Sector Cuts - Anyone Worried?". We all should be. The biggest customer of the private sector in NI today is the public sector. The Belfast Trust is Europe's single biggest public sector employer with over 20,000 employees. The cuts to the public sector will cause irreversible harm to the economy in NI and potentially the health, safety and wellbeing of the population.

x12yhp

Robothell wrote: »

This thread is at risk of going off point here - the title is "The Public Sector Cuts - Anyone Worried?". We all should be. The biggest customer of the private sector in NI today is the public sector. The Belfast Trust is Europe's single biggest public sector employer with over 20,000 employees. The cuts to the public sector will cause irreversible harm to the economy in NI and potentially the health, safety and wellbeing of the population.

I agree - everyone has their own views on those employed by the public sector. I just think it best not to put across the "we are doing it for the pulic good" view - I do not think it is going to win support from the general population. By all means think it, but be aware that many will disagree and now is not the time for un-necessary arguements!

I do not think that the cuts mean irreversible harm to NI. I think they potentially mean NI goes through irreversible change and the general mentality of the occupants will have to change. I actually think the cuts (to an extent) are a good thing because NI has little better than 'pidgin' industry. Fair enough there are examples of manufacturing and innovation, but, on the whole, we are training our young people massively beyond what our industry can sustain - hence people leaving. We need to accept that we do not have the level of industry to support us living at the same levels as those on the mainland (read into that housing). My view is that the best thing that could happen would be for a proper housing correction. If people can afford a house they will have one of their key motivations fulfilled. If the house is affordable whilst earning £20k, then people will be generally content earning £20k. But as long as it needs £40k, £20k is not enough so people will not be willing to settle with those jobs and thus they leave. Perhaps because many good people leave, we do not then find the development which might allows the £20k job to becomes a £40k.

We do not need massive amounts of public sector help. We have a well educated population and we need to figure out how to keep those people happy. Keeping people in the public sector achieves that for some but the reality is that it is unsustainable. We need to start doing things for ourselves and it seems apparent to me that the first step has to be forced upon us.

tara747

x12yhp wrote: »

I agree - everyone has their own views on those employed by the public sector. I just think it best not to put across the "we are doing it for the pulic good" view - I do not think it is going to win support from the general population. By all means think it, but be aware that many will disagree and now is not the time for un-necessary arguements!

I do not think that the cuts mean irreversible harm to NI. I think they potentially mean NI goes through irreversible change and the general mentality of the occupants will have to change. I actually think the cuts (to an extent) are a good thing because NI has little better than 'pidgin' industry. Fair enough there are examples of manufacturing and innovation, but, on the whole, we are training our young people massively beyond what our industry can sustain - hence people leaving. We need to accept that we do not have the level of industry to support us living at the same levels as those on the mainland (read into that housing). My view is that the best thing that could happen would be for a proper housing correction. If people can afford a house they will have one of their key motivations fulfilled. If the house is affordable whilst earning £20k, then people will be generally content earning £20k. But as long as it needs £40k, £20k is not enough so people will not be willing to settle with those jobs and thus they leave. Perhaps because many good people leave, we do not then find the development which might allows the £20k job to becomes a £40k.

We do not need massive amounts of public sector help. We have a well educated population and we need to figure out how to keep those people happy. Keeping people in the public sector achieves that for some but the reality is that it is unsustainable. We need to start doing things for ourselves and it seems apparent to me that the first step has to be forced upon us.

100% agree with you, esp on the housing point. Housing needs to be affordable and not a 25-year millstone.

x12yhp

tara747 wrote: »

100% agree with you, esp on the housing point. Housing needs to be affordable and not a 25-year millstone.

And to go further... many are forgetting that, for years, they lived beyond their means because of the housing that was a cash cow. The difficulties we are suffering now are, more or less, repayment of what we spent. So we need to pay it all back. So the two big ways of doing this are cutting back on global spending or accepting that piles of bricks are not worth what many thought... I have not yet heard another, realistic, alternative.

steveymp

A lot of good points and discussion on this thread folks :T:T

Robothell's quote below was what I was trying to say earlier, but he put it more eloquently.

Robothell wrote: »

I do not know of a single person working in the Health Service who is in it for the money - there are easier ways to make a fast buck that don't involve trading off such a large chunk of your life.

There are room for cuts and cost savings in all aspects of life, but please remember cutting front line NHS only effects the people asking for the cuts in the first place:o

36square

steveymp wrote: »

There are room for cuts and cost savings in all aspects of life, but please remember cutting front line NHS only effects the people asking for the cuts in the first place

Then why is it that the people making the most noise against cuts are those employed in the public sector (including the NHS).

x12yhp

36square wrote: »

Then why is it that the people making the most noise against cuts are those employed in the public sector (including the NHS).

This is an interesting point. On the one hand I think we have people looking at the media and hearing anecdote about GPs with massive salaries, patients left in hall ways, visits to A&E which consist of hours of wait inspite of staff doing nothing... there are plenty of reasons for the public to complain and I certainly am left with the suspicion that the medical profession fail to help as often as they succeed (in my experience, the truth is another matter). On the other hand... we all rather hope that the health sector would actually be there if we need it and it is awfully easy to be critical if we have no immediate requirements.

It is a difficult one. The health sector needs to sort out its bad image. Enough complaining about short staffing/lack of money, no one is listening to that anymore - recent figures show that there is a huge amount of money and the implication is that it is perhaps being divided in a sub-optimal manner. So sort it out. If the public feels they are getting an invaluable service, you will never be out of a job. If not... well that one is clear...