Taken to court for motoring offence, but wrong signal - what to do???

rjm2k1

InnocentMan wrote:

Not really my friend. Because financial reward is not the only reward. Magistrates revel in their sense of self importance. In real life generally speaking they are insignificant nobodies, but put them in a position of 'power' and that is their reward.

In fact Magistrates are paid, expenses, and these expenses can include loss of earnings (if the Magistrate is in employment and they lose pay for attending court). In fact it is not unheard of Magistrates claiming loss of earnings whilst still being paid, thus getting what is colloquially termed as a 'double bubble'.

Undermines your post somewhat!:rolleyes:

What a load of rubbish, Magistrates have to operate within the letter of the law, there are strict guidelines regarding evidence and punishment, if they step outside of those guidelines they can be in trouble. Believe me, knowing a magistrate personally, they are very often not impressed by the police and the way that they handle courts and if they feel that a conviction is not appropriate they will throw the case out. However, pure bad handling of a case by the police is not likely to end up with a case being thrown out, it has to be down to the actual evidence (if there is any) and offence (if there was one). In this case, the facts are still unclear, the road marking issue should be easily proven through photographs, though OP sounds like he may be saying the signs have been changed since the issue and therefore he doesn't have the photographic evidence. If there are conflicting markings and OP has the photographic evidence, then he will probably not be found guilty by the courts. If he does believe the signs have been changed since, then he would need to write to the local council asking for details of when the signs were changed or come up with some other evidence of the change.

The license issue is a different kettle of fish, since it seems the OP is unclear whether or not he is actually allowed to drive the vehicle under his existing license, meaning he wouldn't be insured either. The very fact that the OP is unsure is a bad sign, as he should have been sure before getting behind the wheel. I know that if I'm in a foreign country and was to drive a car, I would make sure I was allowed to do so. Since OP is apparently a bus driver in this country, I would have to assume that the bus co actually checked his license before letting him drive! If this isn't the case then he should quit the job immediatly.

mr1974

I really think that's exactly what happened.
- I have a EU licence which is perfectly valid for the type of vehicle I was driving. I have been stopped multiple times without problems.
- I was contested the left turn, the seat belt and the driving licence "which cannot be located on our systems. Now we will have to summon you for that as well but don't worry, bring it to you at the court". (Strangely enough I was also required to produce the licence at a police station within a week, which I did.)
- I remember that when it happened (01/2006) I asked if I had to pay a fine and was told this would have been a decision of the court. I heard them running all kind of checks on my car and having them all OKed as the car was of course insured, tax paid, and blah blah.
- I sent the licence to the courts anyway; I was required to do so by the summons. I have now been allocated an adjourned court date for 07/2007.

I have not received my licence back yet. ;-(
I look forward (!) to the court. ;-(

mr

rjm2k1

So now you weren't wearing a seat belt either?

Why were you stopped multiple times previously?

Did you send your license recorded delivery?

That court date seems a long way off!

Do you already have points on your license? I guess that if you are near the limit, the cop may want you to goto court to be banned, assuming the offences he stopped you for will take you over the limit of 12 .

mr1974

rjm2k1 wrote:

So now you weren't wearing a seat belt either?

Oh my god! :eek:A cold jail is approaching!

rjm2k1 wrote:

Why were you stopped multiple times previously?

Routine checks?

rjm2k1 wrote:

Did you send your license recorded delivery?

Of course I did! You're underestimating my commitment.:T

rjm2k1 wrote:

That court date seems a long way off!

Do you already have points on your license?
I guess that if you are near the limit, the cop may want you to goto court to be banned, assuming the offences he stopped you for will take you over the limit of 12 .

No-one ever wanted to give me points on my licence; furthermore, my license does not have a points system:cool:.
mr

mr1974

rjm2k1 wrote:

The license issue is a different kettle of fish, since it seems the OP is unclear whether or not he is actually allowed to drive the vehicle under his existing license, meaning he wouldn't be insured either. The very fact that the OP is unsure is a bad sign, as he should have been sure before getting behind the wheel. I know that if I'm in a foreign country and was to drive a car, I would make sure I was allowed to do so. Since OP is apparently a bus driver in this country, I would have to assume that the bus co actually checked his license before letting him drive! If this isn't the case then he should quit the job immediatly.

Nothing is unsure about the licence. Of course I checked, I've already said it's from a EU country and it's perfectly valid, which somehow makes this last section irrelevant.

mr

rjm2k1

Fair enough, it does seem very odd then that he's wasting the courts time when he could have given a fixed penalty, they do have crackdowns on not wearing seatbelts from time to time, so coupled with the left turn he could just be trying to cause you grief by making you goto court.

>Update, I posed the question to a magistrate I know, response

"I believe the problem may be the Licence, the police are probably prohibited from issuing fixed penalty. Am amazed that he has been given a July date, which area is this? If he pleads guilty and can confirm why it has had to go to court in X we normally only fine the same amount as fixed penalty and no costs so it may be in his interest to clarify why fixed penalty was not issued. Even if he does'nt go to court he can still include a note saying because of .......... the police were unable to issue fixed penalty ( assuming there's only one offence) If theres more than 1 offence that's a different situation however even then i would usually expect that he would only get points for the more serious offence. "

iluvmylexus

InnocentMan wrote:

You may want to reconsider pleading not guilty, becuase it is very unlikely you will be acquitted. Magistrates Courts are Police courts, and Magistrates are in the pockets of the police. Remember that the Magistrates Courts/Police/CPS all have the same paymasters and basically collude together against the motorist in order to extract cash from them.

If you plead not guilty and are found guilty your fine/endoresement/costs will be substantially higher than if you plead guilty.

I am afraid that anyone (especially a motorist) putting their faith in the fairness and impartiality of a Magistrates Court is severley misguided.

my father-in-law has been taken to court by the police on alleged motoring offences at least 10 times and has fought every case. He has been found not guilty or had the charges and/or sentence reduced on almost all occasions.
it can pay to plead not guilty but you must prepare your case properly.

pennypuppy

oh dear, sorry - nothing to add except I would write a letter to the chief constable with a photo of the road arrow and explain you are sorry but it was genuinely confusing. Worth a go, good luck.