Huge student fees to limit house prices further?

toby3000

lostinrates wrote: »

I think its on topic. I think £7000 for a classroom lead, GOOD quality course is good value....its a full time course, when you add in study time, with access to libraries. While they don't pay for access to books/journals per student the cost of us accessing them with out other access would be significant. If you think you get, what 20 hours ish in a first year...I just can't remember, of lecturer time, well then £7k of ''half'' a persons full time hours seems reasonable ...its not one lecturer, but imagine a moment it was....I should be phrasing this better....pro rata etc Holiday change that significntly though, I grant that.

Maybe my university was unusual, but for undergrad courses in Arts/Humanities you got 6 hours of lectures a week, and 3 hours a week in seminars. For about 20 weeks a year (I'm not 100% on this bit, but I think we didn't have lectures after Easter holidays).

lostinrates

toby3000 wrote: »

Maybe my university was unusual, but for undergrad courses in Arts/Humanities you got 6 hours of lectures a week, and 3 hours a week in seminars. For about 20 weeks a year (I'm not 100% on this bit, but I think we didn't have lectures after Easter holidays).

In the first year? Crikey! Mine seems really good value!:eek: If that's more common then.....absolutely, there is plenty of room for manoeuvre, but also.....are students really spending the other 30 hours of a standard full time week in library reading/working on assignments......why not work part time to allow self funded study?

olly300

lostinrates wrote: »

In the first year? Crikey! Mine seems really good value!:eek: If that's more common then.....absolutely, there is plenty of room for manoeuvre, but also.....are students really spending the other 30 hours of a standard full time week in library reading/working on assignments......why not work part time to allow self funded study?

The issue at the moment is getting a part-time job to fit around your studies.

People have been working part-time around their studies for years.

lostinrates

olly300 wrote: »

The issue at the moment is getting a part-time job to fit around your studies.

People have been working part-time around their studies for years.

I know. I was one of them! The point is, that there are options...one doesn't have to not earn for 3/4 years which many imply.

Perhaps greater flexibility...which the ''module'' system was meant to provide really is the key? FWIW I hated modular study and found that it did not foster depth of thinking, nor joined up thinking.

carolt

lostinrates wrote: »

I think its on topic. I think £7000 for a classroom lead, GOOD quality course is good value....its a full time course, when you add in study time, with access to libraries. While they don't pay for access to books/journals per student the cost of us accessing them with out other access would be significant. If you think you get, what 20 hours ish in a first year...I just can't remember, of lecturer time, well then £7k of ''half'' a persons full time hours seems reasonable ...its not one lecturer, but imagine a moment it was....I should be phrasing this better....pro rata etc Holiday change that significntly though, I grant that.

Depending where you study the upkeep of the actual buildings must be an issue. And then insurances.....which always seem expensive....I wonder how much the insurances for university provision are!

As to whether it's good value or not, it helps to measure it by the international competition -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/oct/10/tuition-fees-students-overseas-universities

has an interesting overview of what your money will buy you around the world. Studying in France, Scandinavia etc seems much more appealing when it's thousands of pounds cheaper - frankly doesn't sound bad if it's the same price.

I think there is a danger of UK universities pricing themselves out of their own local market - the top few will survive on grounds of prestige, but if you had the choice of Hull or Holland, say, then the choice might be less clear cut (well, actually, I'm guessing Holland would win out for most, at fees set at £1500/year, with free travel thrown in, acording to the article).

We could end up with an interesting situation where the only people still studying at UK universities are foreign students, and all the British students have fled abroad.

Which leads to the question of who will fill all the skilled UK jobs after graduation?

Interesting thing, the global market.

lostinrates

carolt wrote: »

As to whether it's good value or not, it helps to measure it by the international competition -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/oct/10/tuition-fees-students-overseas-universities

has an interesting overview of what your money will buy you around the world. Studying in France, Scandinavia etc seems much more appealing when it's thousands of pounds cheaper - frankly doesn't sound bad if it's the same price.

I think there is a danger of UK universities pricing themselves out of their own local market - the top few will survive on grounds of prestige, but if you had the choice of Hull or Holland, say, then the choice might be less clear cut (well, actually, I'm guessing Holland would win out for most, at fees set at £1500/year, with free travel thrown in, acording to the article).

We could end up with an interesting situation where the only people still studying at UK universities are foreign students, and all the British students have fled abroad.

Which leads to the question of who will fill all the skilled UK jobs after graduation?

Interesting thing, the global market.

I think Holland would win for me too. And the travel, language and cultural experiences could be significant CV boosters. The discussion of cost of living on the 2 years in China course is relevant too.....and might be a factor for other high cost of living countries.

Global markets have indeed added interest Perhaps British graduate job wages will go up longer term? I'm proud of a younger generation who will go further afield for study TBH.

olly300

carolt wrote: »

We could end up with an interesting situation where the only people still studying at UK universities are foreign students, and all the British students have fled abroad.

The thing you are presuming is that UK students and their parents are willing to go aboard to study for 3 or 4 years.

While 18 year olds are adults there are very few parents who treat them like that, which UK universities are aware off particularly since the introduction of tuition fees.

carolt

I agree that at the moment it's relatively rare to study abroad, because there was no financial need and frankly it was just rather complicated.

But if you're looking at 12K per annum just on fees, then I suspect free or virtually free courses abroad will become much more common; along with that, the info available to students and their parents about unis abroad will become much greater and of course, there's safety in numbers.

Let's not forget how many UK students go abroad - usually to far more exotic locations - on a gap year. Studying in an nice safe European uni, quite possible in English, is a doddle by comparison.

lostinrates

carolt wrote: »

I agree that at the moment it's relatively rare to study abroad, because there was no financial need and frankly it was just rather complicated.

But if you're looking at 12K per annum just on fees, then I suspect free or virtually free courses abroad will become much more common; along with that, the info available to students and their parents about unis abroad will become much greater and of course, there's safety in numbers.

Let's not forget how many UK students go abroad - usually to far more exotic locations - on a gap year. Studying in an nice safe European uni, quite possible in English, is a doddle by comparison.

agreed, and rightly so I think, but its not £12k atm is it....and when it goes above £7k I think it will become a quality issue.....like in anything else...paying for the best, or making the best with less.

It might be hoped increased competition might boost standards of education. It also occurs that despite we often criticising our own education, some other countries must be valuing it!

neverdespairgirl

olly300 wrote: »

The thing you are presuming is that UK students and their parents are willing to go aboard to study for 3 or 4 years.

While 18 year olds are adults there are very few parents who treat them like that, which UK universities are aware off particularly since the introduction of tuition fees.

I went to live and work in Poland for a year when I was 18.