New Link for ESA with JSA

andyandflo

sh1305 wrote: »

JSA - £64.45 pw
PC - £132.60 pw

for a single person.

errr no, not quite right.

JSA (Contribution based) £65.45, + other income we receive + Pension Credit topup £5.25 = £202.40 (couple)

ESA (Contribution based) £65.45 + other income we receive + Pension Credit topup £5.25 = £202.40 (couple)

Pension Credit (£65.45 + £5.25) + other income we receive = £202.40 (couple)

There is absolutely no difference in the amount we receive if it comes via ESA, JSA or even PC.

It's the help in finding employment that matters and that is only available via JSA.

andyandflo

dreamylittledream wrote: »

Eh? You mean as opposed to the extensive help you were getting whilst you were on ESA which you would still be claiming had you not been kicked off due to failing the WCA you mean?

You are putting some very serious limitations in what you are happy to work under - JSA is geared towards gettting you a full time job that remove you from state help - not about finding you the best employment solution for your needs - that I'm afraid is up to you.

Pension Credit will give you a much higher income than JSA(IB) as a single person or a couple. For you to be worse off your or your partner must have an income that is in excess of this and thus you must be claiming contributions based - in which case this will run out in a few months anyway.

In which case railing against the system is not going to help you - you are not on the poverty line and its up to you to pull yourself out of this one - there's only so much the state can or will help you with I'm afraid.

What on earth are you on about?
Why don't you look through my other posts on this thread so that you get a much better idea of what my circumstances are.

For a start I was not getting any help and I have never had any help whilst claiming ESA or even when I was on the appeal assessment rate. For you to say that I was - then you are dreaming! As I have explained before I was not 'kicked off' ESA, I chose to leave. I could still be on it, waiting for the appeal hearing like 1000's of others, but no I would like some help in finding employment - and you dare criticise me for it!

Yes a full time job. Have a look at some of the other posters on this thread then. 16hrs + pw is classified as full time work. The lady on the first page has had that written in her agreement as well as the days she will work.
Another poster on here is aware of other disabled people that restrict their availability as well.
It now appears that the JSA agreement can be tailored to suit each applicant and his/her abilities/disabilities/illnesses.

I have already answered a posting about our income, I would suggest you read it first before making any more comments about not being on the poverty line.

What else do you suggest I do then? Go onto Pension Credit, close the JSA claim and fester away without any help to get me back into work?

ILGPink

I believe the issue you had last time was the sicknote. A sicknote is basicaly saying you are un-fit for work (your GP's opinion).

If you have a sicknote an advisor would be well within their remit to advise you claim ESA and were unsutible for JSA. When making a JSA claim there is a specific question that ask's if you are fit for work. Furthermore there is also a questions asking if you have an illness or disability which affects your normal day to day activity.

There is a reason why these are 2separate questions. For example you could be in a wheelchair (you have a disability which affects normal day to day activity - walking). However you would still be fit and able to work doing a desk job. Obviously when you make your JSAg the fact you are wheelchair bound would have to be taken into consideration and your agreement would be tailord to your needs.

If you want to claim JSA you need to explain you have an illness/disability which does affect your day to day activity but you are fit for work. Not telling your advisor of everything just causes you problems in the long run NOT the advisor who is assigned to help you

HTH

Oldernotwiser

dmg24 wrote: »

Now now ONW, is utter madness an acceptable word to use on the forum?

No, but they're two acceptable words!

andyandflo

ILGPink wrote: »

I believe the issue you had last time was the sicknote. A sicknote is basicaly saying you are un-fit for work (your GP's opinion).

Yes it was because of the sicknote and the medical evidence that I showed the young lady as well as an explanation I gave when I first claimed in January 2010.

If you have a sicknote an advisor would be well within their remit to advise you claim ESA and were unsutible for JSA. When making a JSA claim there is a specific question that ask's if you are fit for work. Furthermore there is also a questions asking if you have an illness or disability which affects your normal day to day activity.

Yes that is correct, I told her everything. I also showed her the letter that I had received from the DWP (ESA) which said that I was fit for work having just failed the medical and that I should now be claiming JSA. Two days later I was told that I was not fit to work. We had an argument and I asked her to put that in writing which she refused to do. I wanted to know how one department says that I am fit for work and she said that I wasn't. Wouldn't you think that that was something very odd? Anyhow, she said I must claim ESA again and she completed the form. I had no choice in the matter. So I am neither fit for work nor unfit for work and nobody would give me a answer as to what to do.

There is a reason why these are 2separate questions. For example you could be in a wheelchair (you have a disability which affects normal day to day activity - walking). However you would still be fit and able to work doing a desk job. Obviously when you make your JSAg the fact you are wheelchair bound would have to be taken into consideration and your agreement would be tailord to your needs.

Yes I can understand that.

If you want to claim JSA you need to explain you have an illness/disability which does affect your day to day activity but you are fit for work. Not telling your advisor of everything just causes you problems in the long run NOT the advisor who is assigned to help you

Now I think we are coming to the heart of the problem. In this 2nd claim - made in August 2010, I kept quiet about any illness or disability purely because of what happened in January 2010.
I said that according to the ESA people they are still saying, 8 months after the medical that I am still fit for work. I would like to work. Am I fit and able to work? it all depends on who you talk to. I want to, I think I am and I'll try it out. ESA say yes, there is nothing wrong with me and I should be looking for a full time job despite the fact that I have developed further health problems as well as some more complications of an existing illness since I failed the medical, my GP and consultants would go beserk if they found out that I was claiming JSA and looking for work, and if JSA got wind of what is actually wrong with me they would do exactly what they did in Januray 2010 and cancel the claim. I walk round with a medical certificate from my GP, the latest one issued this month for 6 months not knowing what the hell to do with it.

So you tell me what am I supposed to do?
HTH

Am I confused you could say that!!!

dookar

andyandflo wrote: »

It seems that you have not read the entire thread.

If I told them everything like I did in Jan 2010, I would be kicked off JSA and told to claim ESA. Been there and done that. It's the type of illnesses and seriousness of them that to them (JSA) would make me unemployable!

I don't want to claim ESA it is one crazy benefit.

If I have the choice of telling all and ending up on that again or staying where I am - well here I stay!!

It is worth a chance to see if they would wear it just with Diabetes
though. If not - nothing lost.

I'll just have to hope they don't come up with a manual job of 30hrs pw - I will cross that bridge when I have to.

I have read the thread, most of it yesterday I think, so apologies if I am misremembering. I thought you were on JSA, then ESA and then your ESA was stopped?

If this is the case then they cannot kick you off JSA for having the same illness that got your ESA stopped. I don't mean to be rude, but a quick primer: The law *always* mentions the secretary of state regarding decisions. That's one person. (s)he decided you were no longer incapable of work. Based on the same evidence, (s)he cannot decide you are incapable of work. The information that ended your ESA cannot end your JSA.

andyandflo

dookar wrote: »

I have read the thread, most of it yesterday I think, so apologies if I am misremembering. I thought you were on JSA, then ESA and then your ESA was stopped?

If this is the case then they cannot kick you off JSA for having the same illness that got your ESA stopped. I don't mean to be rude, but a quick primer: The law *always* mentions the secretary of state regarding decisions. That's one person. (s)he decided you were no longer incapable of work. Based on the same evidence, (s)he cannot decide you are incapable of work. The information that ended your ESA cannot end your JSA.

Thanks for that, now you have me more confused!!

I have the poster above saying that they can and you say they can't!!

When I say they I mean the SOS of course.

I know what you mean, but they doooo!

Being told that I am capable for work by ESA and still having a valid sick note, is/has been used to decide that I am incapable for work by JSA.
That is what they did to me. That is why JSA completed another ESA claim form and I got put back on it using the same evidence.

I would bet that if I went in to the JC in the morning and told them everything wrong with me (that ESA found me fit for work with) and showed them my current sick note that runs until match 2011, they would cancel my JSA claim - that's a certainty.
Have a read of the posting above.

dreamylittledream

andyandflo wrote: »

What on earth are you on about?
Why don't you look through my other posts on this thread so that you get a much better idea of what my circumstances are.

For a start I was not getting any help and I have never had any help whilst claiming ESA or even when I was on the appeal assessment rate. For you to say that I was - then you are dreaming! As I have explained before I was not 'kicked off' ESA, I chose to leave. I could still be on it, waiting for the appeal hearing like 1000's of others, but no I would like some help in finding employment - and you dare criticise me for it!

Yes a full time job. Have a look at some of the other posters on this thread then. 16hrs + pw is classified as full time work. The lady on the first page has had that written in her agreement as well as the days she will work.
Another poster on here is aware of other disabled people that restrict their availability as well.
It now appears that the JSA agreement can be tailored to suit each applicant and his/her abilities/disabilities/illnesses.

I have already answered a posting about our income, I would suggest you read it first before making any more comments about not being on the poverty line.

What else do you suggest I do then? Go onto Pension Credit, close the JSA claim and fester away without any help to get me back into work?

Your inability to detect sarcasm is quite amusing - that was exactly my point - you were quite happy to recieve ESA without any JCP support to return to work until you were booted off it by failing the WCA.

To my mind the fact that you chose not to appeal it is fairly irrelevant - you don't receive conts based ESA at the appeal rate as you well know so the only reason you are claiming JSA is that's the only benefit income you will get and this will run out once you're six months have elapsed in any event.

You have sufficent income to not get very much from pension credit which suggests you are in a much better financial position than the majority of people who are unemployed, slightly younger than you and claiming income based benefit - that incase you didn't realise if the government defined poverty line.

The only person that can truly help you get back into work is yourself - the very limited help on offer from JCP is neither here nor there really and as you have pointed out yourself is tailored to getting you a job that you don't think your health is up to! You hardly need to claim a benefit to get yourself back in a position to find a job now do you?

cit_k

dookar wrote: »

I have read the thread, most of it yesterday I think, so apologies if I am misremembering. I thought you were on JSA, then ESA and then your ESA was stopped?

If this is the case then they cannot kick you off JSA for having the same illness that got your ESA stopped. I don't mean to be rude, but a quick primer: The law *always* mentions the secretary of state regarding decisions. That's one person. (s)he decided you were no longer incapable of work. Based on the same evidence, (s)he cannot decide you are incapable of work. The information that ended your ESA cannot end your JSA.

That would be assuming the same tests and criteria applied to both ESA and JSA.

It does not, therefore it is quite possible to be fit for work under ESA and unfit to claim JSA.

andyandflo

cit_k wrote: »

That would be assuming the same tests and criteria applied to both ESA and JSA.

It does not, therefore it is quite possible to be fit for work under ESA and unfit to claim JSA.

Thank you - I know it is - I am caught up in the middle of it all!!

Worried sick that they will kick me off JSA if they found out about my problems. Can't tell them the problems so treated as a 'normal' JSA claimant - fit to do any work - And because the medical condition is the same that I have already been found fit for work with, put in a new claim with the sick note I hold for the same illness that I had already failed on, fail the medical again then back onto JSA!!!!

Nobody seems to want to take responsibility for me!!!