Cannot Move From Eon Electricity Mpan Problem

joebloggs09

Hi All

Getting abit fedup as I am unable to get our electric moved from expensive eon rates , tried Scottish power and southern power but they told me as the meter has a two mpan numbers and they cannot offer the same tariffs as eon (5 different reading) economy 10 heat wise

Sorry to moan Many thanks

Premier_2

Give up.

Most suppliers will not accept new customers with that set up, and in the event you foind one who employs a salesperson who either doesn't know what they are doing or perhaps justs wants the commission, any attempt usually ends in tears.

If it's your own property, you may be able to get the entire electricla installation revised so that you can have one of the usualy types of supply & meter. That may be expensive, depending on what types of electrical devices you have that depend on the unique electricity supply you currently have.

If it's a rental property, your only real option is to move if you don't like it.

Is the current tariff really that expensive? I understand you get periods of low rate electricity, and all supply via one of the meters is low rate continuously. You really need to do your sums carefully before leaving what could be a very attractive tariff if used to the optimum.

Terrylw1

Npower, Powergen & Southern Electric all offer E10 tariffs.

Not sure what you mean by 5 different reading? E10 has 2 MPAN's but the Supplier bills against 3 readings Day, Night & Heat.

If Southern are saying they can't support it, you might have just spoken to someone who doesn't understand them as they are less common and more confusing to badly trained call centre staff.

E10 are not the only dual MPAN meters out there. However, support for any meter set up is driven by region and I can guarantee you that ALL Suppliers know about them and have to have the facility to register them. However, what happens is that they tend to make a commercial decision not to create tariffs for them thus blocking you from changing to them.

stewie_griffin

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Npower, Powergen & Southern Electric all offer E10 tariffs.

Not sure what you mean by 5 different reading? E10 has 2 MPAN's but the Supplier bills against 3 readings Day, Night & Heat.

If Southern are saying they can't support it, you might have just spoken to someone who doesn't understand them as they are less common and more confusing to badly trained call centre staff.

E10 are not the only dual MPAN meters out there. However, support for any meter set up is driven by region and I can guarantee you that ALL Suppliers know about them and have to have the facility to register them. However, what happens is that they tend to make a commercial decision not to create tariffs for them thus blocking you from changing to them.

Not all E10 meters have 3 rates, some for example only have 2 rates (on peak and off peak). Heatwise meters either have 4 or 5 rates depending whether the "normal" part of the meter is economy 7 or unrestricted. There are then 3 heatwise rates including a boost. npower do fully support them although I've never seen details of the tariff.

You can't use comparison websites so the only way to find out is to ring npower directly. This also means that you can't use cashback sites

Terrylw1

Some Suppliers quote E10's on the websites so the OP should be able to try that. That might save talking to call centre staff who may not all understand them.

2 MPAN's so the OP needs to move both and have a 3 rate unit charge tariff. This works the same as E10, so anyone supporting those, can do these.

All types of meters are supporting by every Supplier, it's a requirement of their licence. However, there is nothing that states they have to offer a tariff for them all, hence customers with less common set ups don't get the free market option.

dunloadin

What you have there is a two-element key meter, these have 2x MPANs as they replace the two meters you would have if it was a credit system.

E10 meters have two rates as per E7, confusion reigns when Heatwise/Comfort Plus/THTC are mentioned as these are Protected Tariffs NOT E10 systems (though they may have 10 hrs cheap rate).

Terrylw1

Heatwise is available on Token (no longer an option due to Ofgem regs), Key or Credit. It's not end dated so Suppliers can still fit them, unlike day certain Off Peak metering which is classed as Preserved.

E10 can have 3 rates, Day, Night & Heat hence 2 MPAN's are put in place, 1 for Day & Night, the other for the Heat element.

Not saying that it's not a Twin Element Heatwise though.

dunloadin

A small excert from the (admittedly no longer with us) Energywatch big book of electricity;

MULTI RATE ELECTRICITY TARIFFS

These meters allow consumers to receive cheaper fuel for their heating. There are several different types of meter which have their own tariffs. The main tariffs are:

• Economy 7

• Economy 10

• Protected tariffs

ECONOMY 7

This is the most common type of multi rate meter.

• Charges a lower price for 7 hours electricity through the night but a higher price at all other times

• Best suited to consumers who use a lot of electricity at night – for example those with electric storage heaters

• Some people use a timer to run their washing machines and tumble dryers at night to make use of the cheaper rate electricity

Economy 7 Meters produce two meter readings, one for the lower price night time consumption, and one for the higher price day consumption. Both meter readings are needed for a bill to be produced.

ECONOMY 10

Provides 10 hours of cheaper electricity each day split approximately into the following periods:

3 hours in the morning (typically 4:30am to 7:30am)

3 hours in the afternoon (typically 1:30pm to 4:30pm)

4 hours during the evening (typically 8:30pm to 12:30am)

Economy 10 is beneficial for consumers who have wet heating systems – i.e. radiators rather than storage heaters.

It has the advantage over storage heaters by offering additional cheaper heating at different times of the day. Unlike traditional storage heaters which may begin to run out of heat towards the end of the day, Economy 10 systems can be used at varying times although heating that is used outside the cheaper rate periods will cost more to operate.

All appliances used during the cheaper rate period will benefit from cheaper electricity overall – not just heating. (same as E7) Not all suppliers offer an Economy 10 tariff and this can cause major headaches for consumers trying to switch supplier.

Companies that currently support this tariff include:

• Southern Electric

• EDF Energy and E.ON (UK wide with the exception of the North East of England)

• Npower can support economy 10 however they do not actively seek to recruit consumers on this tariff.

Points to note:

• The times vary from supplier to supplier and across different regions

• Requires a special meter - suppliers may charge for providing this

• Information accurate as of May 2008

PROTECTED TARIFFS

As with an Economy 7 tariff, protected tariffs offer consumers without a gas supply a more cost effective way of heating their home. These tariffs are only available to properties which already have the appropriate meter in situ and are only provided by those companies which formerly enjoyed a monopoly position in their respective area. The benefit compared to an Economy 7 system is consumers receive additional cheaper electricity. This is often in the form of a boost in the afternoon (period of cheaper electricity for heating purposes) which ultimately provides longer heating provision throughout the day and evening.

These tariffs generally charge for electricity as follows:

• Highest price during the day for all household appliances except heating

• Lower price during the night for all household appliances except heating

• Cheapest price through the night and during the afternoon for the heating only

Specific times should be checked with the supplier and there are some tariffs which offer a further rate for electricity used during the weekend.

EXISTING PROTECTED TARIFF SCHEMES

Local Area Supplier (Original Name) Protected Tariff

South East England EDF Energy (SEEBoard) Warmwise

East Midlands E.On (East Midlands Electricity) Heatwise

North East England nPower (Northern Electric) Super Tariff

Southern Scotland Scottish Power Comfort Plus

South England Southern Electric Super Deal

Point to note:
Information correct as of May 2008

OTHER PROTECTED TARIFF SCHEMES

Scottish Hydro Electric, in Northern Scotland operates a slightly different protected tariff called Total Heating with Total Control whilst Scottish Power also offer a tariff called Comfort Plus Control in Southern Scotland.

These systems charge for fuel at either a cheaper or standard rate.

Cheaper electricity is offered for up to 12 hours per day for storage heaters and around 6 hours per day for heating water. Consumers are also able to have appliances such as electric fires, panel/convector heaters, instant water heaters, showers and heated towel rails wired up to the meter recording the cheaper rate of electricity.

All other consumption, such as that used by fridges and televisions is charged at a standard rate.

These tariffs are operated remotely by Dynamic Radio Teleswitches. This allows the supplier better control over the timing of when the cheaper electricity can be supplied. During cold periods, additional cheaper rate electricity will be provided than during warmer periods.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

Consumers on protected tariffs cannot switch supplier unless they are willing to change their meter.

This will mean either their afternoon boost or cheaper rate electricity will be lost. The consumer will usually have to pay for changing the meter. Many consumers feel that due to these restrictions, they are unable to benefit from competitive prices.

Whilst this may appear to be the case, most consumers with a protected tariff are actually receiving the best price available, and may find themselves paying more for their fuel if they replace their system.

WHY CONSUMERS CANNOT SWITCH SUPPLIER IF THEY HAVE A PROTECTED TARIFF

Due to the provision of cheaper electricity, often at times when the wholesale price is at its highest (during the afternoon), suppliers tend to make very little profit on the supply of protected tariffs. There are also further costs associated with supporting these tariffs which along with the limited profitability of protected tariffs have prevented suppliers competing.

Suppliers that do offer protected tariffs are only obliged to do so until they are eventually phased out.

Suppliers do not usually accept new consumers onto these tariffs and neither are they obliged to do so.

If a consumer transfers away from the supplier which provides them with a protected tariff, the supplier is not obliged to offer the consumer the same tariff if they wish to return.

Mis-selling is a common issue for consumers with a protected tariff as sales agents often do not take them into account when offering cheaper deals.

E10 has 2 reads and works as per E7 (times differ as it's designed for non-storage heating systems.

Warmwise/Heatwise/Super Tariff/Comfort Plus/Super Deal have a 2 meter/2 MPAN system with three reads.

THTC/Comfort Plus Control have a 2 meter/2MPAN system with two reads.

All pre-pay protected systems have a two-element meter, as no-one wants to feed monies into two meters.

Terrylw1

dunloadin wrote: »

A small excert from the (admittedly no longer with us) Energywatch big book of electricity;



E10 has 2 reads and works as per E7 (times differ as it's designed for non-storage heating systems.

Shame they got this bit wrong then.

Thats not how they are set up in the back end of the industry.

E10's have always been available as dual MPAN with 3 settlement registers, hence 3 reads are taken and the Supplier pays against 3.

Heatwise is also not set up in the industries Market Domain Data tables as end dated...which means there is not way to prevent any Supplier from putting one into a property. End dating is how to dsop if because the meter's various code combinations can no longer be registered past the end date. Without this, they can be fitted and continuallky registered.

Probably a terminology thing, since end dated is classed as Preserved.

dunloadin

The info is slightly out of date as Energywatch are no longer with us, most of the info will still be relevant. I've never seen an Eco10 system in my neck of the woods (Hydro) that has 3 rates, nor one that has storage heaters, another terminology thing perhaps.

Terrylw1

dunloadin wrote: »

The info is slightly out of date as Energywatch are no longer with us, most of the info will still be relevant. I've never seen an Eco10 system in my neck of the woods (Hydro) that has 3 rates, nor one that has storage heaters, another terminology thing perhaps.

I'm the same, I see less in the way of 2 rate only E10.

3 rate E10's are in the old Eastern Elec area and branching out as Meter Operators change. They've been around since market start up but I think this is part of the confusion because not even Energywatch fully understood them based on this. They work very similiar if not the same as Heatwise.

Then we've got the Npower only Supertariff which stops people moving around even more!

It's all customer driven though so whether they get used, is another matter.

What drives a meter's ability to be used is something call Market Domain Data which is regulated by a body called Elexon. It would be nice if the industry set something up to show what was available where & by who to get rid of the confusion.