Getting me teeth fixed.

welshdent

theheathen wrote: »

I do find this coy and evasive attitude of dentists regarding their earnings amusing. There's a thread about dental implants at £2500 a piece (implant, abutment and crown) and the guy has his dentist saying he only makes about £20 profit on the procedure. Utter nonsense of course, but it's symptomatic of a profession that is forever crying hardship and poverty. Is the module covering this modus operandi compulsory at dental school, or can one opt to skip it?

Where has the profession cried poverty? Seriously, where? We have complained about how bad the new contract is for patients and practices ... not incidentally due to finance but about its operation. You have clearly had some bad experiences and have a rather large chip on your shoulder ... but that doesnt make an entire group of people crooks. If however you think it DOES ... then I do feel sorry for you.

usignuolo

"(young dentists) come in thinking they will graduate , earn £100,000 and spend half their time on the golf course. "

Well that's what my GP does.

My OH had mild tooth ache and went to his dentist (not NHS, very difficult to find one round here). Was told he had a small abcess and needed root canal treatment. And as it happened, dentist had friend who had just opened a specialised clinic down the road doing said procedure. My OH paid his dentist for consultation, then made appointment at root canal clinic. Phoned up by them the day before to say the dentist recommended by my OHs dentist, was not available and he was being assigned to someone else. He went along, paid for another consultation and was advised they could do root canal on his tooth for £800. The dentist he saw was newly arrived in the UK and not registered as a specialist yet with the BDA. As I understand it a root canal is no guaranteee of success. If it did not succeed he would need an implant. All just seems to be way to make money out of us.

Would anyone like to confirm, are British dentists the most expensive in the world?

theheathen

welshdent wrote: »

I actually find your allegations particularly with no evidence of this being as widespread as you allege. You have clearly made your mind up as to us all being crooks so why waste your time coming a place like this and pretend to ask for advice?
I have NEVER operated in the manner you suggest and I am almost entirely NHS funded. I also know of few others that do what you are alleging. You can not simply pluck some random numbers from an un named lab in china and brand us all crooks. You have NO idea how a dental practice runs. None at all. All you are doing is looking at a few (incorrect) examples and rushing to a conculsion

chinadentaloutsourcing DOT com seeing as you asked. I can post lab fees for plenty of UK based operators too if you wish, their prices are of course a lot higher, but still less than 20% of the cost of the procedure.

As for your defence of your profession, you should ask yourself which is the more probable...

1. The dental profession has a disproportionate number of rogue operators compared to other medical professions.

2. There is a long standing conspiracy, involving the media and most of the general public, who consistently cast doubt on the probity of the dental profession.

As a dentist you are of course inclined to believe the latter, but those outside of your profession are not so credulous.

welshdent

Apollonia wrote: »

I've been thinking that as I read through all the OP's posts! This has got to be a wind-up.

...welshdent hasn't contributed to this thread yet.
That's unusual...:D

LOL sadly I was experiencing life whilst the OP got on their crusade but I have chipped in now

theheathen

welshdent wrote: »

Where has the profession cried poverty? Seriously, where? We have complained about how bad the new contract is for patients and practices ... not incidentally due to finance but about its operation. You have clearly had some bad experiences and have a rather large chip on your shoulder ... but that doesnt make an entire group of people crooks. If however you think it DOES ... then I do feel sorry for you.

Yes, but having read a large number of dentists opinions on the new contract the complaints have almost exclusively been complaints about remuneration. As it happens I agree, your new contact sucks, but as a profession you brought it on yourselves. Given a free hand to charge for services on a piecework basis, the system was abused to the point of near collapse.

welshdent

usignuolo wrote: »

"(young dentists) come in thinking they will graduate , earn £100,000 and spend half their time on the golf course. "

Well that's what my GP does.

My OH had mild tooth ache and went to his dentist (not NHS, very difficult to find one round here). Was told he had a small abcess and needed root canal treatment. And as it happened, dentist had friend who had just opened a specialised clinic down the road doing said procedure. My OH paid his dentist for consultation, then made appointment at root canal clinic. Phoned up by them the day before to say the dentist recommended by my OHs dentist, was not available and he was being assigned to someone else. He went along, paid for another consultation and was advised they could do root canal on his tooth for £800. The dentist he saw was newly arrived in the UK and not registered as a specialist yet with the BDA. As I understand it a root canal is no guaranteee of success. If it did not succeed he would need an implant. All just seems to be way to make money out of us.

Would anyone like to confirm, are British dentists the most expensive in the world?

Nope.


My friend, a dentist was in australia recently. They have a tooth which has had a LOT of work done to it due to trauma as a kid. It has a composite veneer on it and has been treated whilst in university to try and arrest the external resorption that had started. This tooth and veneer broke while they were travelling. So they popped in to a surgery. Explained the situation and said what they wanted .... temporarily pieced back together so they could get back and have the work done for an implant. The whole appointment took approx 20 mins and they were charged $300.

welshdent

theheathen wrote: »

Yes, but having read a large number of dentists opinions on the new contract the complaints have almost exclusively been complaints about remuneration. As it happens I agree, your new contact sucks, but as a profession you brought it on yourselves. Given a free hand to charge for services on a piecework basis, the system was abused to the point of near collapse.

I certainly didnt bring it on myself. I hadnt qualified when it came in. We were lumbered with it for 2 reasons. Labour needed to budget i.e. know exactly how much they were spending .... and 2 they had over spent on the GP contracts. to say the complaints are about remuneration is to over simplify. Sure money plays a part but its not the AMOUNT thats the issue but the way in which it is delivered. Clawbacks, penalties, variable terms on overperformance depending on PCT/LHB. Inability to set up a new practice without explicit approval. etc

welshdent

To the dentists out there ... some of you may know what I mean ... Angry Richard LOL

theheathen

usignuolo wrote: »

"(young dentists) come in thinking they will graduate , earn £100,000 and spend half their time on the golf course. "

Well that's what my GP does.

My OH had mild tooth ache and went to his dentist (not NHS, very difficult to find one round here). Was told he had a small abcess and needed root canal treatment. And as it happened, dentist had friend who had just opened a specialised clinic down the road doing said procedure. My OH paid his dentist for consultation, then made appointment at root canal clinic. Phoned up by them the day before to say the dentist recommended by my OHs dentist, was not available and he was being assigned to someone else. He went along, paid for another consultation and was advised they could do root canal on his tooth for £800. The dentist he saw was newly arrived in the UK and not registered as a specialist yet with the BDA. As I understand it a root canal is no guaranteee of success. If it did not succeed he would need an implant. All just seems to be way to make money out of us.

Would anyone like to confirm, are British dentists the most expensive in the world?

They are indeed, American dentists are 2nd in cost terms. Of course in America a newly quantified dentist will have paid somewhere in the region of £150k just for their education, and so to some extent there is
a modicum of justification. In the UK a dentists education is massively subsidised by the state, and yet upon graduation they can walk straight into private practice and charge what they like. Doctors cannot do this, they are required to do a residency. UK dentists have their education subsidised, and then go out into practise with a mindset that they should charge whatever they can get away with.

As for the root canal. A general dentist that is comfortable performing the procedure should have no problem, there is no need to see a specialist, unless you fancy paying even more. After the root canal is completed the tooth will have to have a crown placed so expect another £400-500 for that, maybe more. £800 is a very high fee for a root canal, I would run, not walk, to another dental office.

theheathen

welshdent wrote: »

I certainly didnt bring it on myself. I hadnt qualified when it came in. We were lumbered with it for 2 reasons. Labour needed to budget i.e. know exactly how much they were spending .... and 2 they had over spent on the GP contracts. to say the complaints are about remuneration is to over simplify. Sure money plays a part but its not the AMOUNT thats the issue but the way in which it is delivered. Clawbacks, penalties, variable terms on overperformance depending on PCT/LHB. Inability to set up a new practice without explicit approval. etc

I read the whitepaper covering the proposal for the new system, it's abundantly clear the level of fraud in the system had to be dealt with, and the banded system however ridiculous has curtailed the rampant abuse. Of course it's a raw deal for patients too, crown and bridgework simply does not take place under the NHS anymore, not when a removable partial will garner the same band fee and cost a fraction in lab fees and time.