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The Wilsons, they have never been so quiet.
Comments
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1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »If they were clever they would have developed & bought from a limited company.
Company goes bust. Bank gets houses. But they own the land.
Without the land the houses are worth nothing. So the Wilsons could end up buying the houses for nothing from the bank, adding the land on & selling them at a good profit.
And do you think the £750 price tag was a dream or just a game?
Well.. it's possible I suppose. A complicated web of intrigue you're outlining. The banks unprotected against the super intelligent Wilsons hiding their real motives and financial firepower behind webs of companies?
You'd think the other repos (voluntary management arrangements) from the Wilsons are all part of their masterplan? Buy them back for pennies will they?
Playing the bankers for fools? Those really smart Wilsons eh. Working the banks over, which would also include taxpayer owned banks, like B&B and Mortgage Express?
I think it's already been done by them to be honest, but "It's "been a nice ride but the party's over" as Fergus Wilson was reported to have said in late 2008 or early 2009.
Maybe the banks have already been played if the the Wilsons have creamed off so much in rent and MEW over the years which the banks can't now touch?
They've certainly lived a very comfortable life too.. racehorses, big betting, admired by the press and many readers as BTL champions. Both giving up the teaching profession in exchange for the life they had in BTL, acquiring hundreds of houses, and noble developments like the one in this thread, with £750K asking prices.Despite the publicity surrounding their decision to sell they have not found a buyer. And, although they deny it, their problems look acute.
Financial Mail has learnt that at least one property has been put into receivership by a major lender.Both the Bank of Ireland and Ashford Borough Council, where most properties are situated, said data protection rules meant they could not comment. But tellingly, Wilson told Financial Mail the properties were being clustered together in 'management arrangements', formed with the agreement of lenders, or even managed by lenders. Some of these deals were being finalised last week.
Wilson insists these arrangements are being entered into ' voluntarily' and 'with no compulsion' from lenders. He says that only 15 per cent of the properties do not yield enough rent to cover their mortgage bills. 'We have looked at the most sensible way forward,' he said.
'We have spoken to all our lenders, and we have decided to enter management agreements. It is the only way for us to be able to retire. I don't want to be rung up every day by someone complaining about a dripping tap.'0 -
Well.. it's possible I suppose. A complicated web of intrigue you're outlining. The banks unprotected against the super intelligent Wilsons hiding their real motives and financial firepower behind webs of companies?
Its not complicated at all.
Setting up a limited company for a business is common.
Buying a house with land is common if you are in the business of doing so & getting planning for development is the next step.
Then you mortgage the part of the land to fund the development & the mortgage is secured on the houses being built.
Except the mortgage is not secured on the access & neither do the new houses have right of way.
I bet a few banks have been caught out on that one. In fact I know they have.
Bank ends up owning a house that is worthless because no one can live there.
Now the Wilsons may be clueless & if they didnt go limited they are worse than clueless. So who knows.
A land registry search would tell you what property owns the land & I bet you its neither of the 2 new builds.Not Again0 -
Why do people seem to dislike the Wilsons so much?
I get the impression that most of is pure jealousy and people kicking themselves because they did not get off their backside and do something similar themselves.0 -
Why do people seem to dislike the Wilsons so much?
I get the impression that most of is pure jealousy and people kicking themselves because they did not get off their backside and do something similar themselves.
In that case you really can't see where I, and others are coming from.
Jealousy? You're so far away from where I'm coming from. I'm ideologically opposed towards them at every level.
There is BTL.. but then there is greed. Why would a couple need 800 or 900 houses? They were still buying approaching the age of retirement. Very reliant on constant HPI, and no recession.
And so much of it was riding a long wave then a credit bubble. If they'd stopped with 30 of 40 houses (a huge number really) bought upto 1997 they'd be paid off by now, with wealth for them to enjoy.
You think they should be "respected" for that they've "achieved" ?
They had safe teaching jobs in the public sector, and living in the auction rooms during the early 90s recession, buying up houses cheap from those suffering the worst affects of the recession?
I could go on and on.. but no point with you, for you think they've really achieved something and people who don't agree resent them for no reason. If they'd built most of their houses and sold them to FTBs or rented them cheaply (like a housing association) I'd have had respect for them.
Glorying in dirty tricks to take advantage of desperate people?A tad recklessly, Mrs Wilson can't resist telling me about one scam her husband pulled in 1994. After snapping up a four-storey house in South-East London at auction for £44,000, he noticed 'for sale' boards outside the property next door. So he called the estate agents to ask the price.
"It's £58,000," came the reply. Mr Wilson insisted that this was far too much, claiming he had bought the adjoining house for £30,000.
His bid was initially rejected, but a few days later, on Christmas Eve, the phone rang.
"If you've got £30,000, it's yours," the agent said.
The deliciously simple sting was concluded a few days later, when Mr Wilson had the house valued for mortgage purposes and it was deemed to be worth four times the amount he had paid: £120,000.
He borrowed the maximum amount allowable - £100,000 (85 per cent of its value) - and promptly used the excess funds as a deposit on several more houses.
I've got respect for people who teach, and try and teach well. I've got respect for so many individuals, and generally who work in many sector (disagree with some of the waste and pay in public sector though). Doctors, good tradespeople, designers.. on and on... but for people who binge fully in a credit boom to acquire FTB style houses in the hundreds with no exit plan... or one they've left way to late to exercise, expecting ever more crazy mega boom selling prices.. ?
FRUG from GPHC summed it up best for me in 2008.Look at what he is saying:"We are not a penny behind on our loan payments," says Fergus. "We are reasonably safe, I think. If we go under, then everyone's going under."The risk for buy-to-let borrowers is not only rising mortgage costs, but tenants failing to pay the rent. "One or two have lost jobs [...]"Figures from Nationwide this week showed house prices tumbling 12.4% annually, but Fergus says "the prices for two and three-bedders around here have not fallen much"Fergus says: "Buy-to-let landlords are not bad people. [...]"
They are both over 60. If they were still maths teachers they would have retired by now. Teachers of their age get really good pensions. If they'd stuck to just a couple of early BTLs they would now not have a care in the world. Isn't that what's important at their age? They would have a very comfortable retirement and, even more importantly, they would feel good about themselves having spent their working lives enlightening and inspiring thousands of young people about maths. They would be respected members of the community.
This is a tragic story of people becoming wrapped up in their own greed and personal hubris. Even if they don't lose their entire fortune, they will certainly have gone through a period of extreme stress and quite frankly even if their financial worries go away, their greed is so obvious they must have nagging self-doubts as they go to sleep each night. That is their true punishment.
frug.0 -
Thing is that I do not believe they ever pretended to be a charity or said what they were doing was for the greater good. They just set out to make a good living for themselves, like tousands of other small businesses. They did nothing that many others could not and would not have done if they had had the will and foresight to do so.0
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For someone who could soon have more than £100m sloshing around in his bank account, Fergus Wilson appears to have remarkably little interest in his money. “We are always getting letters to invest in this, that or the other, like buying a private jet,” says Fergus, 61. “But what do I want a private jet for? I never go anywhere.”
A stately home? A villa in the south of France? A luxury yacht, perhaps? Fergus, who together with his wife, Judith, 59, has spent the past decade and a half amassing a portfolio of 700 investment properties, looks nonplussed. “We’re not that kind of folk,” he says. “We’re pretty basic people.”
After a pause, Judith concedes that she might fancy a cruise — although neither of them likes the heat, and Fergus gets restless on long journeys. But, yes, they could buy a couple of farms on top of the two they own already, or add to their collection of racehorses.
If you've read what he won on each way bet in a Grand National a few years back.. which had at least one of his own horses running (very simple folk).. then you know he'll bet big money. Very simple folk... racehorses and big betting.It’s not surprising Wilson always manages to get a good deal. “Someone is always trying to rip you off,” he warns. “Anyone can buy a Mars bar for 55p; the trick is getting it for 40p.” Recently, he convinced an estate agent to knock down the price of a house from £245,000 to £180,000.
“Agents know to come to me if they think people are prepared to drop the price,” Wilson boasts. In a few instances, he has bought properties from people in financial difficulty and rented them back to them. “It’s sad sometimes, but we’re in the business to make money, not to house people,” he says. “People end up in financial difficulty because they don’t pay attention. They’re busy watching the rugby rather than doing their paperwork.”
For pretty basic people, "simple folk" then why revel in difficulties of others... exploiting opportunities... when you consider yourself so massively wealthy with hundreds of your own houses? I don't think his attitude is anything to respect.
Lots of other people are in business too.. or just want value for money and less debt... and people who've acquired so many resources... if the Wilsons can't afford repayments on all they've taken on, then they're assets should be, where legally possible, possessed by their creditors. Just as it was ok for Fergus and Judith to enjoy having done the same to so many other people.
I want others to have opportunity to buy assets (hundreds of houses) off one couple. I'm so glad two families are likely to soon be living in those houses they built and were asking £750,000 for. That they've acquired them for a reasonable market price... and they aren't hanging on the market empty for even more years than they were. There are, and should be, lots of positives to come out of this.0 -
Why do people seem to dislike the Wilsons so much?
I get the impression that most of is pure jealousy and people kicking themselves because they did not get off their backside and do something similar themselves.
Even people in the horse racing world (who have a lot more money* than the Wilsons) don't like them.
*money = money they actually have; not money with lots of debts.
I wonder if the scouts liked them either, when their scout hut was bought by them?RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
They did nothing that many others could not and would not have done if they had had the will and foresight to do so.
Actually a lot of people had the will and foresight but also had the common sense to know a bubble when they saw one and stayed well away!
I know a lot of people who had extensive property portfolios who were selling rather than buying in 2004-2007 when they saw things were over-heating. It's called hedging your bets and something that intelligent investors do.
To infer that everyone else is thick or lazy because they didn't follow the Wilson's is ridiculous. The opposite is true - everyone else had common sense and weren't greedy and were far more cautious.0 -
Actually a lot of people had the will and foresight but also had the common sense to know a bubble when they saw one and stayed well away!
I know a lot of people who had extensive property portfolios who were selling rather than buying in 2004-2007 when they saw things were over-heating. It's called hedging your bets and something that intelligent investors do.
To infer that everyone else is thick or lazy because they didn't follow the Wilson's is ridiculous. The opposite is true - everyone else had common sense and weren't greedy and were far more cautious.
So you may argue that they were not very good at running their business, but why do so many seem to hate them and take great pleasure at the thought they may be failing?0 -
So you may argue that they were not very good at running their business, but why do so many seem to hate them and take great pleasure at the thought they may be failing?
It's the UK - we like to see people taken down a peg or two especially when they've got ideas above their station.
Loads of people won't get off their fat behinds and when they see others fail it allows them to continue to justify their lack of ambition and get up and go.
It's jealousy, plain and simple.0
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