The Wilsons, they have never been so quiet.

doire_2

Probably moved to aberdeen. Nothing bad ever happens up there. The restaurants are always full.

the_flying_pig

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Had somewhere between £180m and £225m in equity in March this year...

That figure sounds like a nonsense to me.

Firstly, as a couple who preached a mantra of using any equity they had as downpayments for further debts. They were putting down tiny deposits... I would be astounded if, even at peak, their total equity was more than 25% the full market value of their 'portfolio'.

Secondly, they 'only' ever owned 700 properties. Most were two-bed semis. It’d be very generous to them to assume an average market value of £0.2m per house (I’m sure I’ve read interviews with Fergus in which he cites a value of around £175k or thereabouts as being typical), 700 of those equates to a market value of £140m…

So given my first point I cannot believe that their equity ever exceeded £35m.
Given my first point it seems likely falls of 25% from peak would be easily enough to wipe them out.
I would guess that they gave a lot of gifts [millions at a time] away to their children at the point when they realised there was a risk that the game would be up [so autumn 08, lehman collapse date, at the very latest]. Under bankrupcy rules I think those gifts could not be clawed back if 5 years had elapsed since giving... So if they can hold out till September 2013 they'll be home and dry. If not...

Thrugelmir

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Their plan was always to take out as much money as they could from a property as the market rose, to pay for the deposit on other properties: and so on. How much equity would they have built up doing that as they will be in negative equity with some of their later houses, and maybe some of the earlier ones too if they kept taking further loans out against the equity they thought they had?

The Wilsons are borrowing at 2% above base for the majority of their funding, and their property empire is yielding around 5% gross.

So 2.5% margin to cover operational costs, void periods etc seems adequate. On the number of properties they own , economies of scale will come into play as well.

Despite leveraging up. Its a fair assumption that they used free cash flow to fund deposits on property purchase. Something more recent BTL investors have not had the luxury of. Instead using existing equity to borrow with.

dopester

dopester wrote: »

They've also got those 2 ridiculous (imo) new builds behind their own house, on land they had and extra they aquired, they were trying to shift at £750K a pop rofl. They've sat empty for a long time, on the market, but have since withdrawn from the market for some reason.

Hello. I've become busy with stuff so haven't been on MSE for a while. Hope everyone is ok. I'm going to have a flick through forum this evening to try and catch up.

Remember those two new-build houses?

I was, and still am, 99% certain it's their development. (evidence below)

2 houses built on extra land acquired, behind, what I understand to be their family home.

Stupidly I only linked to the postcode on Rightmove before, instead of each page, but showed the twin houses at £750K each asking price, later £745K. It's all documented on other Wilson threads.

dopester wrote: »

I'm convinced these two new-build houses are part of the Wilson empire.

More than likely the build organised and overseen by them.

Today, after 16 months on the market with a £750,000 asking price, both have been reduced today by a whopping £5,000 each.

They really could use some new photos on the listing as well. Clean those pallets away.

A while ago I noticed them fall off Rightmove.

Anyway, tonight i see one of the properties is back on now at £295,950 asking price.

A massive fall from the fantasy price being sought before, at £755,000 or later £750,000 !

Maybe the other's sold, for it looks like they/whoever has an offer:

We advise that an offer has been made for the above property in the sum of 295,950 pounds.

Other thing being.. the initial wording in the listing. Very corporate/bank sounding.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28427362.html

dopester wrote: »

There are pallets all over the place (in the EA listing for those £750K newbuilds), and a piece of wood leaning against that white meter box.

And the asking price ! Just had a search of properties within 1 mile radius to get some perspective of how it is priced against other homes in the nearby area.

Anyway here is the original planning application, for 2 detached houses with garages and access.

http://www.maidstone.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=01/1844&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=394254%26StartIndex=151%26SortOrder=APNID:asc%26DispResultsAs=wphappsresweek1%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

You can even view the planning application, and other documents, inc architect plans. (PDFs... you have to disable pop-up blocker if trying to access from the maidstone website link above, but might be able to access directly with links below)

http://applications.maidstone.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/00136255.pdf
http://applications.maidstone.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/00094695.pdf
http://applications.maidstone.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/00136258.pdf



With an address, if you need satisfying to the owner's name/mortgages and any charges... then it's only about £2 to see the Register for any address (at least in England I think), and about £5 to see the Title Plan.. edging in red the extent of the plot/property it comprises of. (prices from memory)

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/

It's not possible to share my own data on my searches with that on an open forum (even though I'd love to), because that is data the LR rightly makes charges for, to gain their own source of revenue, and not to be freely distributed by others.

Judith Elizabeth Wilson.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

Repossession?


They have red tape on the rads.

dopester

There they are on the satellite, during the build phase.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=ME17+4HS&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Maidstone+ME17+4HS,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.229814,0.529178&spn=0.001439,0.003248&t=h&z=19

Also.. planning application docs quoted above, assuming links still work, show you who applied for planning permission. A certain Fergus Wilson iirc.

poppy10_2

Yep definite repo, from both the language in the ad and the red tape on the radiators, dead giveaway. And it is Fergie's, same design as in his planning application.

dopester

The HPI fantasies have taken a bit of a beating here. :rotfl:

From asking price £750,000, reduced to £745,000 (how generous) to whoever is in charge of this property on verge of an offer of £295,950!

Still too much imo but much better value than £750,000.

I still have the old listings in my Rightmove favourites, without full page accessible for old listings pulled.

Second house was near mirror image, except on the listing it old showed the kitchen as the thumbnail start pic.

PasturesNew

dopester wrote: »

Anyway, tonight i see one of the properties is back on now at £295,950 asking price.

A massive fall from the fantasy price being sought before, at £755,000 or later £750,000 !

That needs its own thread. Keep us going this week.

the_flying_pig

v v interesting stuff, albeit, well, it falls well short of something definitive.

i won't be celebrating until i can visit the pair of them in a debtor's gaol, preferably with an opportunity to poke them with a stick through the bars.