The Wilsons, they have never been so quiet.

dopester

lemonjelly wrote: »

Hope you're well too dopester.:)

Regarding the thread, what I'm interested in, is why everything is in the name of 1 person (Judith), not joint.

Hi there LJ - hope you're well too.

It really wouldn't surprise me to find farms, and other MEW money, transferred into Fergus Wilson's name, or their (2?) daughters. So I can't argue against ILW's stance that they are "doing ok", even when it seems parts of their empire experiencing huge problems.

Whatever happens they've probably going to be not too hard up for money. Never looked into it closely, but I always presumed people are mostly free to do what they like with MEW money, including giving it to others, who can buy assets with. They've had so many years to tap and redirect the MEW money. Unless the bank did have guarantees or other mechanisms on money it advanced?

Can't understand why banks would allow this. A bit like in Goodfellas where they have businesses racking up debt, and they're removing all the incoming stock, straight out the back door. I know a guy whose wife drives top range Mercs with mansion who did exactly that some years ago, with debts racked up by the company and big money paid to himself and wife. All ended with the company. MEW is probably similar yes?

That said, it would seem that Fergus has had a very strong influence on the running of this development, and huge BTL operation, including his name on the planning applications for the West and East Barns.

Enjoying PN's remarks here. The Wilsons practically being founding members of the 70% club, in quite a desirable area too, and another £1,000,000 profits never to materialise.

doire_2

dopester wrote: »

The HPI fantasies have taken a bit of a beating here. :rotfl:

From asking price £750,000, reduced to £745,000 (how generous) to whoever is in charge of this property on verge of an offer of £295,950!

Still too much imo but much better value than £750,000.

I still have the old listings in my Rightmove favourites, without full page accessible for old listings pulled.

Second house was near mirror image, except on the listing it old showed the kitchen as the thumbnail start pic.

Imagine asking £750,000 for that!

Running_Horse

Boughton Monchelsea is a nice area, but not that nice.

Those barns were probably the best they could have hoped to get permission for.

It is fast turning from a village into a suburb, soon to be enveloped by development.

It is already a couple of fields away from a pretty rough area.

dopester

Running_Horse wrote: »

Boughton Monchelsea is a nice area, but not that nice.

I recall stories of Boughton Monchelsea authorities (council or something?) buying up loads of land, and a few voices arguing they had no right to spend money in that way... to prevent the developments you're describing. Maybe they will be able to cash in on the land.

Anyway, it's not 70% reduction in somewhere like Salford was the point. Although massively overpriced by the seller / EA. Others guilty of this also, and sometimes they get a bite and a buyer. Not this time though.

Link below because I've now found the link to the old Rightmove listing, (well one of them) which supports my other posts about it/them being on market ages (PB first found on 06 April 2009).

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-12300831.html

Firstly at £750,000 then and reduced by £5K to £745,000.

Seems to me the seller had fantasy of what they could sell them at, but fantasy broken. Where HPI only goes up and up because population growth and other such maths-heads wisdom.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

I bet the Wilsons still own the access to those two houses.

dopester

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

I bet the Wilsons still own the access to those two houses.

What if they do?

Are you saying they might put a gate up near the main road side, and charge a toll?

A toll to the repossessed houses (or in a "voluntary management agreement", as I think Fergus has said about some of their other properties)? :rotfl:

That long drive was something I was thinking about, were I ever to be in a position to buy a house in that sort of situation.. guessing it would be quite dark drive down at night.

I was also thinking who was responsible for the upkeep of that drive.. potholes and the like. If you think its still Judith (doubt Fergus.. seems very much behind the scenes operator of the pair) then maybe she'll have to pay up to keep it in an adequate state of repair.

Also had to use the satellite to gauge whether it was comfortably wide enough to take two cars passing one another down the lane.. which it appears to be.

Yet "The Limes" house has a charge against it by M.E... so who knows how much of it they actually own now? Or it did have such a charge against it last time I checked with LR when the entire plot with the two newbuilds were part of singular plot; The Limes.

Looking at other things... and this is partly just my guessing (maybe they acquired the other gardens ages ago, if the land was set out that way.. but I just doubt it.)

The planning application was dated 8th Nov 2001 (application stamped in process, by Maidstone planning "Development Services" soon after, on 13th Nov 2001, and the registration date of application being 20-Nov-2001.)

My understanding, after permission granted, it gave them 5 years in which to build. Permission was granted on 18-Apr-2002.

Among the conditions:

Planning Application - Details

The development hereby permitted shall be begun before the expiration of five years from the date of this permission; Reason: In accordance with the provisions of Section 91 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.

Seems like quite a long delay for the build to begin, which was captured mid-way, with one house requiring a roof, by Google Satellite.

Unless it was a really really slow build began soon after planning permission granted in 2002, why the delay?

Perhaps it was trouble acquiring the other gardens which would be required?

Or do you think they obtained them before planning (would be risky to do that if doubtful it would be accepted)? Or maybe they were in no hurry.. land and property just going up and up in value by sitting on it.

I wonder how much they would have had to pay to acquire those gardens from the other garden owners. Thinking either before planning was granted (say year 2000), or when it was becoming clear it would be accepted, or just after full granted.. April 2002.

I'm not sure how much I'd accept if one of the other garden owners. £15K?



They would have been so much better off in terms of selling price, (probably not doing it at all), if they had gone about getting them built quicker, and they'd sold in 2006/early 2007. Didn't happen though.. £750K asking price fantasies didn't come true.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

dopester wrote: »

What if they do?


My understanding, after permission granted, it gave them 5 years in which to build. Permission was granted on 18-Apr-2002.

Seems like quite a long delay for the build to begin, which was captured mid-way, with one house requiring a roof, by Google Satellite.

£750K asking price fantasies didn't come true.

If they were clever they would have developed & bought from a limited company.

Company goes bust. Bank gets houses. But they own the access land.

Without the access land the houses are worth nothing. So the Wilsons could end up buying the houses for nothing from the bank, adding the land on & selling them at a good profit.

As for the rest:

Building must start within 5 years. When you finish it doesn't matter unless complaints are made.

Google is out of date by years.

And do you think the £750 price tag was a dream or just a game?

poppy10_2

dopester wrote: »

The planning application was dated 8th Nov 2001 (application stamped in process, by Maidstone planning "Development Services" soon after, on 13th Nov 2001, and the registration date of application being 20-Nov-2001.)
Unless it was a really really slow build began soon after planning permission granted in 2002, why the delay?

Actually it looks like the saga has been ongoing for a lot longer than that.
The original planning permission for the site was actually granted in 1989, for a single 5 bed house. Over the next decade they submitted further applications to build 6 retirement properties (refused) and a nursing home (refused) on the site. In '97 they got permission to knock down The Limes and build two detached properties in its place. In 2001 they got an extension to the 1997 planning permission, as they hadn't started yet. Later that year they submitted a new planning application which is the one you linked to, keeping The Limes and building two detached properties at the back.

In 2006, while the build was underway, they submitted a further application to demolish the two 'hidden' outbuildings that you can see on the Bird's Eye view in Bing to build two bungalows in addition to the two Barn developments; this was refused.



You can find all the applications (and there are a bunch of them) by searching on the applications website with "limes" as the location and Wilson as the surname. Hours of fun for all the family.

PasturesNew

Maybe they bought the houses on the road, cut up the garden for the land, then sold the houses on the road again, to get the plots 'free', or bought from a neighbour who had their back up against the wall in the last downturn.

dopester

Wow - I did say I was guessing at the part to when and how the extra land was acquired, where the two newbuild houses have been built.

The land that you'd expect were gardens belonging to the other houses at one point, unless original "Limes" was just that way originally with the extra land running out that way.

So many a different planning application, with variety of schemes seeking permission, put in over the years. And it looks like the extra land was acquired long ago. (If not original Limes land, could have been acquired like PN suggests too.. from neighbours when money was last very tight.).

Thanks poppy10. That post of yours, with that information, was a really interesting read. You dug deeper than me, and found interesting info new to me.. enjoyable, thanks.

Retirement properties, nursing homes applications for that land in the past, but refused..... I've read in newspapers they've sought permissions to get such places built in the past, perhaps on other land they own/owned. Think they were mostly refused in those cases from what I remember of the news articles.

So retirement properties and nursing home applications for that land, all ties in with what we know of them. I'll try and find the older applications you say exist for planning on that land tomorrow.