ipa and overtime

tvaustin

Hi my wife and I are both currently bankrupt (automatic discharge in November). I have got an IPA which I pay £60 a month.

Currently have lots of volutary overtime at work - could work extra 86 hours a month which would bring home an extra £925 a month.

Spoke to OR last week and was told that this would affect my IPA and I would have to send in my next 4 weeks payslips so they could calculate new IPA amount. 1st week I brought home an extra £310 but dont plan to work any more overtime due to the high amount the OR would take as it wouldnt seem worth it.

Below is a copy of the email I sent to the OR explaining everything

After our discussion yesterday I sat down this morning to work out if it was worth me doing the overtime or not.

I work rotating 3 shifts so this is a breakdown of what overtime hours I can do at the weekend depending on what shift I was on during the week

Morning shift – Saturday 6am – 6pm paid at time and a half and Sunday 6am – 6 pm paid at double time
Afternoon shift – Saturday 7am – 6pm paid at time and a half and Sunday 6am – 6pm paid at double time
Night shift – Saturday 3am – 6am paid at time and a half and Sunday 6am – 6pm paid at double time

So in these 4 weeks ( 2 morning shifts, 1 afternoon and 1 night shift) I could work a maximum of 86 hours overtime

Using a tax calculator I worked out if I did work these 86 hours I would bring home an extra £925.58 of which you would take 70% (£647.90) and I would be left with £277.68. This is based just on the overtime so obviously with my surplus I have at the moment would increase my IPA more than the £647.90 I stated

Now I fully expect to pay something towards my IPA and I could fully understand if I had £925.58 surplus left from my basic wage you taking 70% but if I am left with £277.68 after working 86 hours overtime. This works out that I would bring home £3.23 for each of the hours I have worked.

I was hoping to use my overtime money to make essential house improvements (need laminate flooring in lounge due to children, new doors – can provide photos if necessary of damaged internal doors and front door) and buy Christmas presents for the kids. Also my wife needs some work done on her teeth in November costing £220. Can these be included in my new statement of affairs?

Like I mentioned above I have no problems paying into an IPA but is there anything which could be done regarding the overtime situation as at the moment I am sure you would agree it doesn’t seem worth doing 7 day continuous weeks working 12 hour shifts at times over the weekend to bring home £3.23 an hour over the weekend

Am I being unreasonable? Has anybody had similar expierences?

debtinfo

Its your choice at the end of the day, if you work it the OR will claim their share if you dont, they wont

broxiebear1

im not br yet live in scotland and surplusss is diferent from england , my situation is i work as a tyre fitter and do 24hr on call every fortnight i dont get standby money but get £40 a breakdown some weeks i might get nothing but last time i was on call i got 5 callouts so i had extra £100 not much for work i do , the week im not on call i can hardly do anything i just have enough to get by so my dilema is the same do i continue to do call outs or pack them in, as my money is not guaranteed how can or work out what i have to pay ok i might have had a good month when he works out ipa but what if i dont get extra how can i live

Amnesty

They will take between 50 and 70 percent of any disposable income.Without prejudice you will be working for nothing.

tvaustin

Just spoke to OR over the phone and couldnt make sense of what she told me (had only been up about 5 mins due to working night shift) I asked her to send an email to explain everything but still dont make too much sense.

Thank you for your email on the 31st September.

I would like to point out that as your overtime is going to be continuous until Christmas, the Official Receiver will not be claiming 70% of your overtime, instead your Income Payments Agreement will reassessed including your overtime and its mostly like your monthly amount will increase to reflect your overtime.

When your overtime has ceased please inform me as I would need to reassess you again as your amount need to reduce to reflect your change in salary.


I sent off an updated SOA about 2 months ago so my expenditure would not have changed too much (might be worse off due to me making last payment this month to HMC for overpayment of child benefit) so I am still under the impression that they will take 70% of any surplus I have

Any ideas?

milothewestie

tvaustin wrote: »

Hi my wife and I are both currently bankrupt (automatic discharge in November). I have got an IPA which I pay £60 a month.

Currently have lots of volutary overtime at work - could work extra 86 hours a month which would bring home an extra £925 a month.

Spoke to OR last week and was told that this would affect my IPA and I would have to send in my next 4 weeks payslips so they could calculate new IPA amount. 1st week I brought home an extra £310 but dont plan to work any more overtime due to the high amount the OR would take as it wouldnt seem worth it.

Below is a copy of the email I sent to the OR explaining everything

After our discussion yesterday I sat down this morning to work out if it was worth me doing the overtime or not.

I work rotating 3 shifts so this is a breakdown of what overtime hours I can do at the weekend depending on what shift I was on during the week

Morning shift – Saturday 6am – 6pm paid at time and a half and Sunday 6am – 6 pm paid at double time
Afternoon shift – Saturday 7am – 6pm paid at time and a half and Sunday 6am – 6pm paid at double time
Night shift – Saturday 3am – 6am paid at time and a half and Sunday 6am – 6pm paid at double time

So in these 4 weeks ( 2 morning shifts, 1 afternoon and 1 night shift) I could work a maximum of 86 hours overtime

Using a tax calculator I worked out if I did work these 86 hours I would bring home an extra £925.58 of which you would take 70% (£647.90) and I would be left with £277.68. This is based just on the overtime so obviously with my surplus I have at the moment would increase my IPA more than the £647.90 I stated

Now I fully expect to pay something towards my IPA and I could fully understand if I had £925.58 surplus left from my basic wage you taking 70% but if I am left with £277.68 after working 86 hours overtime. This works out that I would bring home £3.23 for each of the hours I have worked.

I was hoping to use my overtime money to make essential house improvements (need laminate flooring in lounge due to children, new doors – can provide photos if necessary of damaged internal doors and front door) and buy Christmas presents for the kids. Also my wife needs some work done on her teeth in November costing £220. Can these be included in my new statement of affairs?

Like I mentioned above I have no problems paying into an IPA but is there anything which could be done regarding the overtime situation as at the moment I am sure you would agree it doesn’t seem worth doing 7 day continuous weeks working 12 hour shifts at times over the weekend to bring home £3.23 an hour over the weekend

Am I being unreasonable? Has anybody had similar expierences?

unfortunately the official receiver are unjust in these situations, when i did overtime when i was bankrupt i just paid for things i needed then sent receipts in and hoped for the best when its spent its spent,i needed car repairs costing about 1000 sent the receipt with my wage slip and they just said to tell them next time b4 spending the money,however i never they never asked so i never told if they found out just tell them you spent it at the dentists,after all you are allowed to live

philnicandamy

Milo I sadly disagree...the receiver is well within their rights to try & claw back any cash they can towards your debts, its all included in the legal documents you sign & presented in court so most definatley NOT unjust...I know if I had the chance to pay into an IPA with my bankruptcy i'd have done it without question.

I certainly just wouldnt go ahead and have a change in your finances without informing your OR...milo just because your OR said its ok is NO guarantee anyone else will get away with it..you were lucky plain & simple you could have got into a world of trouble spending cash you should have informed the receiver of beforehand, usually milo your information is spot on but this time its plain wrong..

and OP as others said its your choice what to do if you do the O/T they'll claim it if you dont they dont..end of

Raphael

broxiebear1 wrote: »

im not br yet live in scotland and surplusss is diferent from england , my situation is i work as a tyre fitter and do 24hr on call every fortnight i dont get standby money but get £40 a breakdown some weeks i might get nothing but last time i was on call i got 5 callouts so i had extra £100 not much for work i do , the week im not on call i can hardly do anything i just have enough to get by so my dilema is the same do i continue to do call outs or pack them in, as my money is not guaranteed how can or work out what i have to pay ok i might have had a good month when he works out ipa but what if i dont get extra how can i live

I'm self-employed (and in Scotland too) so in a similar situation as my income can fluctuate quite a bit. I explained that at the interview and they asked me to send details of my income every month. It's stayed pretty regular so far (well I made sure it did, taking it easy at the end of the month if needed and passing on work if it looked like I was gonna make too much that month), I'd like to try and make a bit more money soon but I don't know how much more I can earn before they'll want to adjust my IPA (I got an IPA of £75 ie. 100% of my surplus at the time, I now earn a bit more but only have about £25-£30 left after the IPA).

Another thing that worried me is that there could be times when I make nothing at all, say for 1 or 2 weeks in a row, for instance over the Christmas period, or if I'm sick and unable to work, etc. I know they would suspend the IPA in that case, but that wouldn't be good enough, as even without the IPA I wouldn't have enough to cover my rent and basic expenses if I had even just ONE week without income (and Housing Benefits take my fluctuating income into account but it's based on an average over 6 months, which I think makes more sense than every month as is the case for the IPA, but that also means I wouldn't get anything extra that particular month).

Luckily most of the work I do is now for a friend who is subcontracting me, so my way of dealing with it is to do extra work occasionally "for nothing", I did quite a lot of it one particular month, when I had already made enough money myself, and cashflow issues meant she was gonna struggle to pay someone else, but I know I can invoice her and get paid for that work when I'm the one struggling and there's no work for me to do, over the festive period for instance.

I don't know how other people cope, I just wish there was a little bit more consistency in the whole thing, especially in Scotland where there are no clear guidelines!

The whole BR process could also do with more incentives for people to work overtime / get extra money in! For instance if people knew from the start the most they'll have to give to the OR for extra work is 30% then that might mean more money for the OR in the end on average cos more people will take on that extra work if they get to keep 70%, otherwise they might just not bother and the OR gets nothing!

If the OR is gonna take 70% it's not even worth thinking about, especially when you factor in what it's gonna cost you to work those extra hours: transport, meals, nursery, etc, and the time you could be spending with your family instead!

broxiebear1

thanks RAPHAEL i wouldnt mind OR taking my pension every month £88 i could live with that when i dont do call outs i struggle to make ends meet infact i sometimes wonder whats the point working , i am 53 and only been unemployed for 6 months started work when i was 15 . so i would be wasting my time doing call outs how can OR take all your surplus surely thats not right so only way to have some surplus is to claim for things that you dont usually spend money on ie hair cuts .etc and starve if you want to go out one weekend , did OR take £75 from you because thats the lowest ammount he can take.

debtinfo

philnicandamy wrote: »

Milo I sadly disagree...the receiver is well within their rights to try & claw back any cash they can towards your debts, its all included in the legal documents you sign & presented in court so most definatley NOT unjust...I know if I had the chance to pay into an IPA with my bankruptcy i'd have done it without question.

I certainly just wouldnt go ahead and have a change in your finances without informing your OR...milo just because your OR said its ok is NO guarantee anyone else will get away with it..you were lucky plain & simple you could have got into a world of trouble spending cash you should have informed the receiver of beforehand, usually milo your information is spot on but this time its plain wrong..

and OP as others said its your choice what to do if you do the O/T they'll claim it if you dont they dont..end of

Just to add to what phil has said, do remember that breaking the terms of the bankruptcy is actually one of the few things that is still a criminal offence and so it is always best to errr of the side of caution

milothewestie

milothewestie wrote: »

unfortunately the official receiver are unjust in these situations, when i did overtime when i was bankrupt i just paid for things i needed then sent receipts in and hoped for the best when its spent its spent,i needed car repairs costing about 1000 sent the receipt with my wage slip and they just said to tell them next time b4 spending the money,however i never they never asked so i never told if they found out just tell them you spent it at the dentists,after all you are allowed to live

just how it was for me at the end of the day tv its your choice which way you decide to go however i certainly wouldnt work any overtime if it was to be taken away by the o/r,my view is its unjust because you only work extra for nice bits for your family or self lets face it we dont go to work for nothing do we