New employee doing same job as me earning more money

Kt8

havent read page 2, .... so maybe he has come in from previous job on a higher wage than you and they have matched it which is quite common

SarEl

Kt8 wrote: »

havent read page 2, .... so maybe he has come in from previous job on a higher wage than you and they have matched it which is quite common

True. But this is still not an objective test in law and would still constitute grounds for an equal pay claim. I realise that these practices go on a lot and are "common", but again, what is ""common" does not make it lawful. To objectively demonstrate fairness the employer in such a case would have to show that the "salary range" or "scale" was the same for both workers (which would rate as equal pay) - it is fair to appoint people on higher points within a scale or range of salaries for such reasons as existing higher pay etc (or even for additional qualifications and experience)., provided that both workers could, in practice, attain this point in the scale at some time.

Hammyman

SarEl wrote: »

We had this yesterday. I am fully aware that in the private sector, in particular, this is common practice. But being common practice and lawful are two very different things.

It may not be morally right but it is perfectly legal to pay anyone what the hell you want as long as its NMW or above and not based on sex, religion, race or sexual disposition. There is no right or law that states two people doing the same job have to be on the same wage as long as the aforementioned aren't the reasons.

I noticed in the other thread, SarEl, that you refused to answer whether you worked in the public sector or not. The more you post on pay issues like this and the other thread, the more I'm convinced you are. You lot are going to be getting a very rude awakening of what the real employment world is like when you all get laid off. No longer are you going to have the ability to shout "rights" at every little thing, you're going to find lots of people doing the same job on different money and you're no longer going to be basically unsackable.

The rest of us already in the real world are going to find all the handwringing done by former public sector workers highly entertaining.

nearlyrich

In my last role I was paid a lot more than a male colleague doing the same job, I negotiated a higher salary and bonus he didn't is it unfair? I think salaries should be negotiated between the employee and the employer and the details kept confidential in the private sector. I have never been afraid to ask for what I think my skills and experience are worth and to be honest I don't really care if some people are getting more or less for the same job title.

anymeans

Ask for a rise, emphasise your long commitment to the company etc, worse they can do is say no. If no joy then I'd personally look for another job. Maybe this guy has more qualifications or experience or bartered over the salary or whatever, so what? I'd be !!!!ed knowing someone walked into the exact same job as me after 8 years of service and paid that much more, and to leave such sensitive information lying around in the first place is slack at best.

beth58_2

It can happen, I negotiated my salary at my last job within the NHS, because of the skills and knowledge I was bringing they agreed and increased salary. It was agreed my job description had to be altered to accommodate the higher salary which would include more responsibility than other members of staff.

SarEl

Hammyman wrote: »

It may not be morally right but it is perfectly legal to pay anyone what the hell you want as long as its NMW or above and not based on sex, religion, race or sexual disposition. Not if you can't prove that it isn't based on discrimination it isn't - which is the point I keep making although nobody is listening.
There is no right or law that states two people doing the same job have to be on the same wage as long as the aforementioned aren't the reasons. If they are on different wages and a claim is made then the law says that the employer must objectively justify this or it is unlawful. Don't you read? I have never said that two people must be on the same wage.

I noticed in the other thread, SarEl, that you refused to answer whether you worked in the public sector or not. Untrue - I answered the question. I pointed out that I am a lawyer - a barrister to be exact - specialising in employment law . I don't believe that there was any refusal at all - perhaps you should go and read it again ? The more you post on pay issues like this and the other thread, the more I'm convinced you are. Clearly you are wrong then - again. You lot are going to be getting a very rude awakening of what the real employment world is like when you all get laid off. No chance of that - since I do not work in the public sector and never have. No longer are you going to have the ability to shout "rights" at every little thing, you're going to find lots of people doing the same job on different money and you're no longer going to be basically unsackable. I am totally unsackable - I am self-employed and own the company!!!! But you appear to be confused - rights are rights, and people have the legal power to stand up for them. What is wrong with people standing up for their rights? Unless you happen to be a bad employer of course - then I could see why you might object.

The rest of us already in the real world are going to find all the handwringing done by former public sector workers highly entertaining. I hope you find paying the benefits bill and the costs of having no public services when you need them equally entertaining. Remember, you may not need them now, but tomorrow it may be you who is injured due to your employers actions (social services and almost all disability services are public sector agencies) or gets sacked and need advice (CAB are publically funded - try getting an appointment and see how much fun it is). Perhaps you have your millions stashed and don't need to work, but if you don't, then you have no idea what you may have to depend on in the future.

If you think that you are in a position to lecture other people on the real world - you should perhaps familiarise yourself with its laws first instead of seeing whether you can bully and intimidate others because you are jealous of their alleged pay and conditions. I repeat - I have never said that there is or is not a case in this specific circumstance. I have quoted the law and if you do not like the law, speak to your MP about it. Do not take it out on hapless posters who have done nothing other than ask whether or not they have any rights at work.

purplepardalis

I think some people on this forum only come on here to berate others asking advice. Like it's a hobby for them to have a go at everyone.

Then someone is kind enough to spend their usually paid for time giving advice. Good legal advice that normally we have to pay money for because it has taken a long time and hard work to become knowledgeable in this area. And those whose with the hobby mentioned above get their knickers in a twist because people are actually getting advice on their rights thus removing any scope to take mickey and put people down.

It's a strange world we live in sometimes

Anyway - although not my question I'd like to thank Sar El because I've often wondered about this myself both from my point of view and for the people that work for me.

KiKi

Hammyman wrote: »

However you're very quick of the mark when women are involved to shout "sexual discrimination". "You're rights have been broken" is a pretty typical response from a public sector worker TBH, even though in reality there isn't actually that at all.

But SarEl isn't a public sector worker and nor has she said this is sexual discrimination on behalf of a woman. In fact, she was the only one to point out that this legislation works both ways for women and men - more than once.

Please quote me the specific law which states that two people doing the identical job cannot be paid different amounts as long as that difference isn't based on age, sex, religion, race or disability. Somehow I think it'll be a long time coming.

I've read SarEl's posts in this thread and she has already stated twice that two people CAN be paid different amounts, as long as it isn't discriminatory. So I don't think this is being disputed.

KiKi

UnoriginalGuy_2

pimento wrote: »

*Glad she doesn't work for UnoriginalGuy*

I'm fine with that. I dislike sexist people.