Consumer Power: Should will writers be regulated?

stevepett

If you have a problem with a Society of Will Writers member, please complain to the Director General The Society of Will Writers
Ground Floor Chambers
Newland House
The Point
Weaver Road
Lincoln
LN6 3QN

Tel : 01522 68 78 88

It is also worth checking that anyone using the Societies logo is actually a current member - they may never have been one, or have been thrown out.
But of they are bad eggs, the Society wants to know! Call them!

sloughflint

stevepett wrote: »

If you have a problem with a Society of Will Writers member, please complain to the Director General The Society of Will Writers
Ground Floor Chambers
Newland House
The Point
Weaver Road
Lincoln
LN6 3QN

Tel : 01522 68 78 88

the Society wants to know! Call them!

Your loyalty to the Society is somewhat wasted after it made such a fool of itself on the Trust Inheritance thread and the Panorama programme 'a final rip-off?' :

1) SWW failed to ever respond to localhero's questions.
2) The SWW spokesperson's comment on Panorama that only individuals could be members and therefore he had no control over non member employees within firms such as the one exposed in the programme.
This was after posting this:

SWW wrote: »

The Society of Will Writers (SWW) has watched this string develop over a period of time and feels that we should make a statement as to our views on these practices.
There is no need for any person to pay in advance for advice on probate for their appointed executors or to secure what is perceived to be low cost estate administration.
We have seen a growth in the number of companies that offer these services, many costing thousands of pounds, over recent years. It is a practice that the SWW has for many years, outlawed.
Any member company or individual who offers such a service and cannot show that these advance fees are in some way ‘ring fenced’ for the future has their membership revoked.

Also do you realise that the company mentioned by Rachaelwholey in post 6 above is apparently a member?

I was unaware until you posted the address that the Society was based in Lincoln. That makes the following all the more embarrassing for them:
http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/news/Willmakers-sent-prison-stealing-estates-clients/article-2426395-detail/article.html

Baggysdad wrote: »

they are members of the Society of Will writers, if that makes any difference

It doesn't. Anyone can be a member - you just have to send them a cheque. In fact one of the directors of their member firms is in Lincoln Crown Court last week and this week - charged with stealing £450,000 from deceased clients estates. The other two directors have admitted the charge!! The Society knew that the directors of the firm had a dubious history as far back as 2003, but still continued to endorse them in return for their membership fees.

stevepett

Like the Law Society, the SWW does its' best to regulate members. It may be that you are unaware that the Society has continually tightened up it requirements, but that doesn't mean it (any more than the Law Society) can prevent the odd member not living up to the necessary standards. The best thing to do with such people is to report them, as above, not to go on about it in public where no one can do anything and all you are doing is mud slinging at those who do take their job seriously. Please put any allegations in writing to the Director General.

I appreciate that nothing I say is going to change your mind, but can assure other people reading this that the Society of Will Writers:

a) Demands adequate training and ongoing training every year
b) Monitors that training
c) Insists that all members carry full professional indemnity insurance.
d) Has a fund to finish off work should a member go out of business

Panorama could have been made 100 times over with solicitors in the dock - all professions have members who go wrong in them, and I can only repeat that if you have a genuine complaint and are not just point scoring, you should write to the Society at the address given.

Steve

John_Pierpoint

............and let us all know how you get on.

PhiltheBear

stevepett wrote: »

Look out for a Will Writer who is a member of the IPW or the Society of Will Writers,....

ROFL. These 'bodies' are self serving collections of people who are trying to provide a facade of respectability. They have no recognised standing whatsoever.

What about the "Association of Will Writing Professionals and Probate Advisors"? Do they count? They've got exactly the same sort of public face. Oh no, wait a moment, I just made them up. Easy, isn't it?

stevepett

I totally agree that there is a problem in that any Tom, !!!!!! or Harry can make a up the name of a new trade body for pretty much anything and I have previously called for this situation to be remedied.

However both the IPW and the Society of Will Writers take regulating Will Writing seriously and are genuinely trying to raise standards. Both fully accept that there is always room for improvement and I am calling on the Law Society to joint in the bid to raise standards by working with the other two to set standards which (in time) all persons writing Wills should be required to adhere to. For many solicitors, this will be a culture shock - standards need to be raised all round.

If you ask an IPW or Society member how many hours they have spend training every years SPECIFICALLY on Wills and LPAs and the answer will be a minimum of 16 hours a year (mostly way more). Get them to confirm it in writing, and ask solicitors and other persons writing wills for the same written confirmation.

Once you have done that, then is the time to start tarring all Will Writers with the same brush. I would love to see a level playing field with solicitors required to do the same amount of training as us each year to be allowed to write Wills!

Just because one rogue solicitor messes things up, doesn't make all of them bad http://solicitorsfromhell.co.uk/ - please extend the same courtesy to Will Writers

Errata

Perhaps people might have more confidence in IPW and the Society of Will Writers if those bodies published what their associations stance was on member's malpractice and details of actions taken?

stevepett

I agree that a level playing field is needed, and hopefully the current consultation will result in that.

The biggest problem is to make sure that all will writers are regulated at all, and that everyone who is regulated actually does regular training and agrees to a binding code of practice.

I suspect it is unlikely that details of individual cases will ever be published by the Legal Services Ombudsman, but a statistic which showed the percentage of cases written compared with the number of justified complains would certainly provide useful guidance for the public.

The Financial Services Authority publish such date which makes it pretty obvious you should never use a banks financial advice department, you should always use an IFA. Twisting the obvious logic of that, the FSA has decided to try to PREVENT the non-wealthy from getting Independent Financial Advice, and practically forcing them to use banks!

So regulation doesn't always work as well as you would expect when vested interests get involved!

And if you have a complaint about a member of the IPW or the Society of Will Writers, be grateful at least that you do have someone to complain too! Both will welcome genuine complaints, and both will investigate them.

PhiltheBear

stevepett wrote: »

If you ask an IPW or Society member how many hours they have spend training every years SPECIFICALLY on Wills and LPAs and the answer will be a minimum of 16 hours a year (mostly way more). Get them to confirm it in writing, and ask solicitors and other persons writing wills for the same written confirmation.

And that is almost totally irrelevant. The major changes that may affect wills are to do with taxation, there is almost no legal difference between a will constructed 50 years ago and that of one today. From a taxation viewpoint I wouldn't trust a 'Will Writer' or a solicitor. I'd ask an accountant.

Anyone with a modicum of intelligence (and the time) can teach themselves how to write a bullet proof will from appropriate text books. I still have a file from the days when I set up a probate department which contains about 100 standard sentences from which a will can be constructed. That was nearly 20 years ago. With the exception of a couple which deal with tax minimisation none need changing. The vast majority of people don't need complex tax advice anyway, there are a few simple rules to be followed.

I'd be very happy to put myself up against any will writer when there's an estate involving a mixture of money holdings, securities, property, valuables, etc. and I'd be pretty certain of doing a much better job than them. And I haven't written a will for about 15 years.

stevepett

I do agree that some accountants are excellent Will writers, and that liaison with same would be prudent.

Otherwise, I find your comments quite incredible. I don't wish to be impolite, but the mere fact that you believe that all the information you need is in books and that you would know when and where you needed to look is frightening. I find interaction with fellow professionals who ask lots of questions regularly throws up interesting and unexpected scenarios to learn more from. A well known law lecturer said it was a pleasure to work with Will writers who didn't mind asking questions and admitting that they did not know absolutely everything. Working with the people who write the books is much better than just reading them!

I do agree that 50% of Wills are very simple and I am certain you could do a bang up job on those: the trick is in recognising the situations you don't know, and talking with fellow professionals and your supporting regulators technical department to ensure you find the right solution.

Yes, 50% of Will writing IS simple - the other 50% sometimes has major and unexpected trip hazards, which is why all the Regulators insist of continuous ongoing study and training led by experts.