Whats the consensus here, halifax charges?

MarkyMarkD

Yes, and you've got it - Wallet and myself have both pointed out that we can't see that Halifax did anything wrong.

If you don't want to think about why you got into that situation, you'll probably get into it again, and look for someone else to blame again.

Or you could look to the root cause and:

(1) reduce your spending;
(2) get a proper bank account; and
(3) get an authorised overdraft

in which case this need not be a problem once again.

If you want to ask for answers on MSE to half your problems, you are unlikely to get them ... people tend to make their (considered) comments on all the points you raise. And that's all that has happened here.

Bordera

I think this thread is telling us that, as things stand at the moment, the banks will always win unless each and every one of us is totally organised and in control of their finances.

Of course life often jumps out, bites us on the a**e and undoes all of our carefully worked out plans. That is when the banks make profits. Running current and small savings accounts is, from what I am told and read, not profitable unless we screw up and give our banks an opportunity to penalise us.

So making our money available to banks for them to invest in ways we can barely dream of is not enough, we also have to pay them for the privilege.

In an earlier post I mentioned the profits the banks have recently been reporting, I know the greater percentage of these comes from areas other than domestic banking, so not directly from you and I. But is it morally correct that billions of pounds are made from providing what is, in reallity, an essential service?

Views anyone?

Walletwatch

Bordera wrote:

I think this thread is telling us that, as things stand at the moment, the banks will always win unless each and every one of us is totally organised and in control of their finances.

I don't think being organised and taking control of one's finances has anything to do with who wins or loses. Being responsible in their finances is a trait that one and all should adopt. There is no choice when it comes to taking control of your finances. It doesn't take a Bank and all its might to bring you down if you are not responsible with your financial affairs.

Bordera wrote:

In an earlier post I mentioned the profits the banks have recently been reporting, I know the greater percentage of these comes from areas other than domestic banking, so not directly from you and I. But is it morally correct that billions of pounds are made from providing what is, in reallity, an essential service?
Views anyone?

I have said this before and reiterate - I am all in support for crying foul at the scale of some of these charges levied by Banks. Banks do charge inordinate amounts, and to me, it is almost wicked to charge amounts of that magnitude (£35) for a returned DD or a returned cheque. We nevertheless sign up to such accounts, as this seems to be the trend in the industry, and I am sure if one of these banks were to come up with softer charges, quite a lot of us money-conscious people would jump.

But this chain of posts is not about challenging the scale of profits banks make out of unreasonably high charges. It is about whether the Bank should have paid out £12 out of its pocket and push the account holder into an unauth debit balance, rather than levy a charge and do the same. To this, I ask one question - even if a Bank decides that it will, out of courtesy, offer an unauth overdraft to account holders to the extent of £20 whenever they are short on a DD or chq that hits the account. I am 100% sure that the next person who goes into excess by just 1 pence over and above the £20 (and as a result, has a charge levied on his account) is going to have the same complaint that his/her account should not have been socked charges just for the sake of 1p. Where, in such a situation, is the Bank to draw a line?

I personally think I am lucky that I know what I can spend on an account without an OD (only to the extent of my credit balance) or on an account with an OD (my credit balance plus the credit limit available), rather than being subject to inconsistent policies that I cannot rely on or challenge at any point in time.

paint

I have to say that I find the tone of some of the posts on this thread unbearably smug and judgemental, particularly since the original poster fully takes responsibility for her slip-up.

I don't think anybody is questioning the right of the Halifax to impose the charges - had they been stated as a £500 fee in the T&C they would have been perfectly entitled to charge this. However, I'd agree with the point that £68 is in my opinion excessive. The Halifax are absolutely not alone in making these charges at similar levels, they are perfectly at liberty to do so, but it doesn't make it 'right'.

Jonni2bad

happymummy wrote:

once again I will remind you, I didnt ask for opinions on how I run my account/manage my finances, I asked for opinions on how the halifax apply charges!

Perhaps I too could totally ignore your original post and just spout off about anything - but I won't

I think the Halifax are absolutely pants at looking after their customers and the way in which they apply charges. I was a customer for 14 years when I ran into financial difficulty - they issued charges left, right and centre when I started to get short at the month end, and I was even more disgusted when they tried to charge me extra amounts for being more overdrawn because of their charges.

Not once did they offer advice about budgeting, or perhaps mention that I should cancel DDs etc in order to avoid further charges.

They once attempted to charge me £28.00 after refusing to pay a £1.99 direct debit..!

Needless to say I voted with my feet and moved as fast as I could, leaving a rather substantial overdraft that is VERY low down on my priority repayments. With no interest, it's one debt that I'm quite happy to have

.

Walletwatch

paint wrote:

I have to say that I find the tone of some of the posts on this thread unbearably smug and judgemental, particularly since the original poster fully takes responsibility for her slip-up.

I don't think anybody is questioning the right of the Halifax to impose the charges - had they been stated as a £500 fee in the T&C they would have been perfectly entitled to charge this. However, I'd agree with the point that £68 is in my opinion excessive. The Halifax are absolutely not alone in making these charges at similar levels, they are perfectly at liberty to do so, but it doesn't make it 'right'.

Reproducing the original post:

Quote

I'm sure you are all aware of the ludicrous (sp) way the halifax have of administering bank charges, I'd just like to ask your opinions about it.

I have a cardcash account with them, I'm a single parent so on quite a tight budget, I had an unexpectedly high mobile bill to pay on mondy and I was £12 short so they didnt pay it, got my letter through today telling me the will charge me £35 in 7 days and if the charge makes me go overdrawn (unauthorised) they will charge me a further £28 and interest.

Why didnt they pay the Direct debit, then they would only have to charge me once for unauthoried OD (might I add I would've only been overdrawn 1 day) instead of twice for failed DD and unauthorised OD.

Fortunately (or is it unfortunatley) the day they apply the charge for the failed DD will be the day I get my benefit so I wont be charged twice, but I will be left extremely short of money next week as I still have the mobile bill to pay.

Unquote

Obviously, the post doesn't start out taking responsibility for the slip up. You say nobody is questioning their right to charge, but that is exactly what the OP has done by calling it ludicrous (mind you, the post alludes to the charge itself, rather than the amount charged) I don't find this ludicrous (again referring to the practice, and not the amount, which I have said before I find to be on the higher side), this is very much in line with banking practices prevalent today - nothing specific to Hfx.

Secondly, the only charges that have actually been debited to her account are the £35 (she's got a letter saying it will be a further £28 if she doesn't regularise her account), so you are wrong in quoting the charge amount as £68.

As for some other posts being judgmental, I don’t see why someone should expect anything non-judgmental on such a forum – when an opinion is solicited of members of a forum, they are invariably called upon to be judgmental – don’t see what’s wrong with that.

Finally, Jonni2bad, you quote an amount of £1.99, I don’t see why the Bank should overpay even 10p for anyone without an authorised overdraft being set up. And on the other hand, you haven’t been prompt enough to fund your account, so they are perfectly correct to sock you any charges that you have agreed to, while signing up to the account – I would like to know of any account that willingly pays out any amount, however small it may be, without an adequate overdraft facility being in place.

happymummy

Maybe my OP came out wrong, I wasn't really questioning their right to charge me, what I was questioning was the way they double charge, its a very hard cycle to get out of if you are unlucky (or should that be too thick to manage your account and finances?) enough to fall into it.

Whats done is done, I had enough of a balance to pay the charge (wow I'd managed to budget and keep some balance!) so avoided another charge, but the phone bill is left unpaid and I've not had a letter from the mobi comp to say when they will represent it ARGH!!!!!

Jonni2bad

Walle****ch wrote:

Finally, Jonni2bad, you quote an amount of £1.99, I don’t see why the Bank should overpay even 10p for anyone without an authorised overdraft being set up. And on the other hand, you haven’t been prompt enough to fund your account, so they are perfectly correct to sock you any charges that you have agreed to, while signing up to the account – I would like to know of any account that willingly pays out any amount, however small it may be, without an adequate overdraft facility being in place.

Firstly, if you go back to my original text, I did not say that I expect my bank to pay my £1.99 direct debit - I mentioned the fact that a charge of £28 was made for the failed DD, which in my opinion seems rediculous. I did have an overdraft facility, actually, although I was obviously overdrawn and too close to my limit.

Not being "prompt enough to fund my account" was due partly to being made redundant whilst also getting ripped off to the tune of thousands by the same employer, AS WELL AS having to pay multiple charges made by said bank in the previous month.

My rant was based upon the rather odd idea (and clearly outdated) that as a 'loyal' customer of over 14 years, once I got into financial difficulties they were not bothered, the only thing that was important was getting their charges, which in turn would increase the problem of funding the following month's budget.

Did I know that part of the T&C's stated that they could impose charges? Of course I did. Does it make it right? Might they not have served me better by offering some assistance or advice? I think so. Had they done so, then I might not have left that bank and opened a basic account with one of their rivals, and I would have continued to play a small part in increasing their future profits...

Since they seemed to employ people with your attitude to financial difficulties, then I had little chance of ever getting them to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Finally...

Walle****ch wrote:

I would like to know of any account that willingly pays out any amount, however small it may be, without an adequate overdraft facility being in place.

Since you asked so politely, I will tell you - The one I moved to, HSBC.
I no longer have an overdraft facility, and thankfully don't need one, but should a payment be due and the full amount not be in my account, they will pay it, so long as it doesn't take me further than £10 overdrawn. Quite a refreshing change, don't you think?

grumbler

Jonni2bad wrote:

...HSBC.
I no longer have an overdraft facility, and thankfully don't need one, but should a payment be due and the full amount not be in my account, they will pay it, so long as it doesn't take me further than £10 overdrawn. Quite a refreshing change, don't you think?

This does not look like “refreshing” for me. To the best of my understanding this is very similar to an agreed £10 overdraft limit. What happens if your DD potentially brings you below £10 limit? I think you will have the same consequences as you had with Halifax. The DD will be rejected and you will be penalised I guess.

westernpromise

happymummy wrote:

It gets into a very vicious circle, you miss a DD you get charged you go OD you get charged, you are skint due to the charges you miss another DD you get charged again.......

Exactly the same thing happened to me just after I bought my first house. Money was very tight and one month my employer was late paying expenses. The Midland bounced a DD because it would have put me £5 overdrawn, charged me another £10 for bouncing it, and charged me another £20 for two identical warning letters. Next month, I went overdrawn by £6 - because of all their charges the previous month - and it all happened again. In fact, it went on happening for about a year. They took about £300 off me I was amazed that it's legal. All you can do is see if you can find another bank, which is what I did.