Whats the consensus here, halifax charges?

MarkyMarkD

Halifax don't charge differently to any other bank, honestly.

And nor do I see anything wrong in what they are doing.

If you have a category of account which does not permit overdrafts, you can't possibly expect them to pay something which you don't have sufficient funds for, just because it would suit your circumstances. If you want to do that sort of thing, you need a proper current account and an authorised overdraft limit.

So, they had no choice (under the terms of your account) other than to reject the DD. And, having done so, under the terms of your account, they were entitled to charge you £35 for the administration involved in rejecting the DD, and for telling you they've done so. Whether that charge is reasonable is academic - it's in the terms and conditions, and you signed up to them.

And you reckon you would be double charged? Only if you ignore their letter warning you of the impending charge, and fail to credit money to the account to deal with it.

I won't even go where others have gone, but "an excessively high mobile bill" and "unable to feed my kids" at the same time ... no further comment required.

sunflower_2

MarkyMarkD wrote:

I won't even go where others have gone, but "an excessively high mobile bill" and "unable to feed my kids" at the same time ... no further comment required.

markymark

i do think thats a bit harsh, dont u ?
just a little bit too personal?
you dont know why her bill was excessive do u ?

mobiles arent really luxury items any more. mine is a necessity for arranging childcare and emergencies...

its not as if happymummy was saying she needed the money to go out on the town or anything

Bordera

I'm with Happymummy on this one.

Ok, the banks terms and conditions might make charging £63 (+ interest!) for a few days loan of £12 legally acceptable but hey, point me in the direction of a bank that DOES NOT penalise in this way and I will sign up today. Any takers? No? Thought not.

I have been a Halifax customer for very many years and have a number of accounts with them. When Halifax lowered the interest rate on their current accounts I reduced the amount I kept in mine for the usual reasons. During Christmas week, the day before heading of t'family for a few days I realised that my main current account was a bit short so went online to transfer funds FROM ONE HALIFAX ACCOUNT TO ANOTHER.

The upshot was that I didn't action the transfer properly and whadaya know - I was hit with charges that pretty much wiped out years of interest earned from the bank.

But hang on a minute, the transfer that failed was from one Halifax account to another, so what I was guilty of was not having sufficient funds in one particular account, but my total funds with the bank exceeded the payments that caused the overdraft on one account, and this is what they penalised me for???

Ok, I know I should have checked and I know it was my own fault and and I know there are accounts out there that handle this sort of situation more efficiently and I even know that I should have had an overdraft facility in place despite not needing one for for a good many years or so before this event.

So please, let's remember the huge profits that the banks have been admiting to recently and remember where they get some of them from. And how do they do this?Because we put up with it, because we let them get away with it and because we even take holier than thou attitudes with those who do fall foul of the high street banks.

12 years without being overdrawn, one slip and wham!

Oh yes, did I mention that the direct debit causing the overdraft was to...THE HALIFAX!!!

Happymummy - Find a better bank.

MarkyMarkD

sunflower wrote:

markymark

i do think thats a bit harsh, dont u ?
just a little bit too personal?
you dont know why her bill was excessive do u ?

mobiles arent really luxury items any more. mine is a necessity for arranging childcare and emergencies...

its not as if happymummy was saying she needed the money to go out on the town or anything

My main point was to answer the question - which is that I don't think Halifax have done anything wrong.

But whilst we are dwelling on the other issues, I don't happen to agree with the "mobiles aren't a luxury" sentiment. We are talking about a bill being £12 too much - for one month - that's £144 a year for goodness' sake. And that's just the bit that was "too much" - not the entire call bill. When you can call people for 1p for any length of time from your home phone, spending huge amounts on mobile bills when you have a limited income is an inappropriate use of those limited funds IMHO.

MarkyMarkD

Bordera wrote:

I'm with Happymummy on this one.

-- etc -- snipped --

Oh yes, did I mention that the direct debit causing the overdraft was to...THE HALIFAX!!!

Happymummy - Find a better bank.

Who the DD is from (not to) is rather irrelevant - if it was to pay your Halifax mortgage or credit card, or whatever, they are entitled to their payment. No reason why the banking side should not charge the charges that are due.

Anyway, I have never heard of a single case where a bank refuses to refund the first ever charge of this type - they normally accept that people will make one mistake, and learn from it, and manage their account properly in future.

You suggest "find a better bank" - but there is little difference between the different banks' approaches on this sort of charge. If you breach your account terms, you will almost universally be charged. The only long-term solution to avoid this sort of charge is to obtain an authorised overdraft limit and then work within it.

sunflower_2

MarkyMarkD wrote:

My main point was to answer the question - which is that I don't think Halifax have done anything wrong.

But whilst we are dwelling on the other issues, I don't happen to agree with the "mobiles aren't a luxury" sentiment. We are talking about a bill being £12 too much - for one month - that's £144 a year for goodness' sake. And that's just the bit that was "too much" - not the entire call bill. When you can call people for 1p for any length of time from your home phone, spending huge amounts on mobile bills when you have a limited income is an inappropriate use of those limited funds IMHO.

well... everyone is entitled to their own opinion at the end of the day

but i hav to say i dont agree (my opinion)

i found it just as cheap, if not cheaper to have a mobile on contract with free minutes, than have a home phone.

Bordera

Sorry MarkyMarkD I disagree.

Just because the banks can and do behave in this way does not mean to say that things have to stay that way. Everything evolves, it is time the banks did too. If they do not listen to what we are saying then there are alternatives if we feel strongly enough about it.

Think about how many people are registered with this website - what could we do if we all decided to find - or create- our own alternative. Communities are already begining to create their own banks to assist those rejected by ordinary banks. Small beginings maybe, but from acorns....

As to my own position, I think you missed the point, I fully agree that payments should be honoured and that the bank was entitled to their payment. What I objected to was being penalised for being a "deemed debtor". I was a debtor on paper but not in actual fact, yet the bank's immediate reaction was to evoke their right to penalise.

I have already evoked my right to take my business elsewhere - customer care DOES matter and if the banks insist on extracting every last penny they must be prepared to accept that they are forcing their customers to do the same or sink.

Walletwatch

happymummy wrote:

Yes, thanks for that, I did acutally *know* it was my fault, the reason I posted was not to get a lecture but to see what other people thought about the way the halifax charge people. It seems there is a division in opinions and thats what I wanted to find out.

Well, in fact what I gave was my opinion on whether the Halifax had done anything wrong, and I must say, almost all of my text was trying to explain why in my opinion, they were not wrong.

Should you have felt this sounded like a lecture, I am afraid that was just in response to the open-ended question you posted on the forum. If in the opinion of any poster, you are in the wrong, and are blaming a bank for something that is not actually the Bank's fault in the first place, you will need to accept such 'lectures' (as you call them), along with posts by others who agree with you.

Sorry, but while I am all for a crusade against high charges levied by Banks, I definitely feel it is people who do not fund their accounts adequately who should pull up their socks and handle their accounts more responsibly rather than blaming the Banks for charges which would not have arisen if they had transacted on the account in they way they should have.

If you are not very comfortable financially, I would recommend that you stop blaming the Bank for this incident. Leave the 'holier than thou' and request the bank for a refund, at least a partial one, under the grounds that this is a first-time excess (which I hope it is) and to treat it as an exception.

Walletwatch

Bordera wrote:

I have already evoked my right to take my business elsewhere - customer care DOES matter and if the banks insist on extracting every last penny they must be prepared to accept that they are forcing their customers to do the same or sink.

I agree with you, Bordera, though I must say, in this case, the T&Cs are again stacked in favour of the Bank, and not the customer. They have the right of setoff and lien, but the account holder does not. Which is why, if they perceive a risk in one of your overdrawn accounts not being regularised, they can pull out money from another account that you hold with them, which has a credit balance, however, it is up to them as to when they choose to exercise this right.

And I must say, as you rightly point out, there are Banks that do it for you, if you have an overall credit balance enough to meet an incoming payment. I have a Citibank current account and savings account, and they have done this once for me. You, in your situation did the right thing taking your business elsewhere, but I hope you did some hollering about it to Halifax, coz I think they should definitely have refunded the charges to you.

As I said, though in this case also, the T&Cs do not exactly favour you, I view that as just a technicality, and in the spirit of banking, the Hfx could have set off a credit balance in one account against a debit balance in the other. One definitely has a leg to stand on, when taking it up with the bank as an unfair charge having been levied, unlike the other case we are discussing.

happymummy

MarkyMarkD wrote:

I won't even go where others have gone, but "an excessively high mobile bill" and "unable to feed my kids" at the same time ... no further comment required.

Not sure what others would deem as excessively high, but in fact I didnt say it was excessively high, just unexpectedly high, nor did I say I was unable to feed my kids, in actual fact I said I had to make the choice of feeding them or paying the bill. Nowhere did I say I am £12 short every month, this was a one off and once again I will remind you, I didnt ask for opinions on how I run my account/manage my finances, I asked for opinions on how the halifax apply charges!