is there any clear, irrefutable evidence...

torontoboy45

of a private car-park co. initiating civil court action against an individual and acually succeeding?

apologies if this one has been asked before - it's been quite a hectic day (when I haven't been posting) so I haven't yet trawled previous posts.

every post that I looked at over the weekend which touched on this indicates: no. but the evidence seems more anecdotal than definite.

I guess I just need some reassurance as I prepare for the mother of all non-battles with euro car parks.

all comments welcome.

Orford

There have been a handful of claims issued by PPC's. The majority of their 'wins' have been where no defence has been entered and they have had judgement granted by default. They have lost vitrually all cases where claims have been defended. But 99.99999% of the time PPC's do not go anywhere near a court.

Coupon-mad

torontoboy45 wrote: »

I guess I just need some reassurance as I prepare for the mother of all non-battles with euro car parks.

all comments welcome.

Like I said on another thread, I have dealt with Euro Car Parks last year and there really is no battle, it's easy. Just refer to our thread 'PPC letters/threats, what to expect', familiarise yourself with the pathetic extortion attempt that forms the ECP letter-chain and laugh as each matching letter arrives from ECP and then Control Account. And then the scam will be over.

I overstay fairly often in private car parks, I just haven't been blessed with another PPC ticket yet but I am trying to collect some and cost the scammers some money! Some posters on pepipoo collect these tickets every week and have dozens of them!

The only case occasionally trumpeted by the PPCs themselves is the Stephen Thomas case from 2008 which was considered on these forums as a set up with a 'patsy' who offered no defence except to lie and say he wasn't driving. When the judge decided that wasn't the case he lost, even though he could have cited all sorts of other aspects in his defence, for some strange reason he chose not to. Draw you own conclusions as to why...;)

More typical is the Hetherington-Jakeman case (again, very very rare that anyone was taken to Court but the PPC were trying to make an example of someone in a local anti-Excel protest group and picked on her. They failed dismally!):

http://www.chad.co.uk/news/local/local_news_2_9302/judge_says_excel_parking_fines_illegal_1_701811

Even more typical are the 'cases' cited every single day on our forums, where (except for the odd clamping or Council/Police ticket) every single person is in your shoes, currently ignoring a PPC:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

Seriously, please stop worrying. Would you spend as much time fretting if you had got a series of phishing emails telling you that you'd won the Nigerian Lottery? No, you'd laugh scornfully and delete them without so much as a second thought.

And the difference between that sort of scam and a bogus PPC ticket is? NOTHING.

bromsgrovebarry

It is not going to be a battle. You ignore them and they go away. It is really that simple.

ashleypride

torontoboy45 wrote: »

of a private car-park co. initiating civil court action against an individual and acually succeeding?

every post that I looked at over the weekend which touched on this indicates: no. but the evidence seems more anecdotal than definite.

I guess I just need some reassurance as I prepare for the mother of all non-battles with euro car parks.

all comments welcome.

To answer your question yes there has been cases where the PPC succeded. The better question however, is how many cases have PPC's won where a) There was a defence entered and the defendant showed up, and b) That weren't PPC setups.
(On B there have been several blantent setups where the PPC take action against friends, or where their mates pose as advice givers on forums and lead the defendants up the garden path in their defence).

ashleypride

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Like I said on another thread, I have dealt with Euro Car Parks last year and there really is no battle

Thats exactly what the OP said a non-battle - took me a while to notice that

torontoboy45

ashleypride wrote: »

Thats exactly what the OP said a non-battle - took me a while to notice that

thanks ashley. I'd already grabbed the drift over the weekend about this scum. it's a non-battle on the strength of what I've read here.

I'm still in moral outrage mode but I know me. shortly I'll be calm and then take my own advice about 'revenge being a dish best served cold'. all I need is 48hrs and a comfy bed.

torontoboy45

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Like I said on another thread, I have dealt with Euro Car Parks last year and there really is no battle, it's easy. Just refer to our thread 'PPC letters/threats, what to expect', familiarise yourself with the pathetic extortion attempt that forms the ECP letter-chain and laugh as each matching letter arrives from ECP and then Control Account. And then the scam will be over.

I overstay fairly often in private car parks, I just haven't been blessed with another PPC ticket yet but I am trying to collect some and cost the scammers some money! Some posters on pepipoo collect these tickets every week and have dozens of them!

The only case occasionally trumpeted by the PPCs themselves is the Stephen Thomas case from 2008 which was considered on these forums as a set up with a 'patsy' who offered no defence except to lie and say he wasn't driving. When the judge decided that wasn't the case he lost, even though he could have cited all sorts of other aspects in his defence, for some strange reason he chose not to. Draw you own conclusions as to why...;)

More typical is the Hetherington-Jakeman case (again, very very rare that anyone was taken to Court but the PPC were trying to make an example of someone in a local anti-Excel protest group and picked on her. They failed dismally!):

http://www.chad.co.uk/news/local/local_news_2_9302/judge_says_excel_parking_fines_illegal_1_701811

Even more typical are the 'cases' cited every single day on our forums, where (except for the odd clamping or Council/Police ticket) every single person is in your shoes, currently ignoring a PPC:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

Seriously, please stop worrying. Would you spend as much time fretting if you had got a series of phishing emails telling you that you'd won the Nigerian Lottery? No, you'd laugh scornfully and delete them without so much as a second thought.

And the difference between that sort of scam and a bogus PPC ticket is? NOTHING.

a definitive answer which should net you the 'post of the month' £50 ( no disrespect to other posts -I'm quite impressed by the standard of 'local' knowledge kicking about here).

I'm not stressed; more relishing the empowering thought that not only can I easily deflect the scamera 'evidence' that would leave me £70 short but also that I could assist my local residents/colleagues/friends in telling these monkeys to get stuffed.

some helpful poster here pointed out that an on-line kit is available to priv. car-park operators, giving official-looking tickets,etc.

I'm tempted to buy a kit and nip down to my nearest morrisons, slap 'em on a rake of cars ( to cause outrage but with an explanatory note that the park is being monitored by a bunch of jackals) , stand back and monitor the reactions.

lots of other things going on in my life but I'm that incensed that I might hand 5hrs of my time over to this (when I can find them).

I'm seriously considering it.

meanwhile, thanks for all yr input.

AlexisV

Yes, 4 times as far as I know:

• 2x CPS (1x no defence apart from 'didn't see the sign', 1x full defence but landowner probably suffered financial loss albeit not as much as CPS claimed)
• 1x OPC (no defence apart from 'didn't see the sign' - appeal underway)
• Scottish case (1x decent defence I believe, but landowner suffered continued financial loss)

These tickets can be enforceable if they are a genuine pre-estimate of loss incurred. If you park at McDonalds each day you are effectively depriving them of custom.

As for losses by PPCs, must be in the 30's by now.

torontoboy45

AlexisV wrote: »

Yes, 4 times as far as I know:

• 2x CPS (1x no defence apart from 'didn't see the sign', 1x full defence but landowner probably suffered financial loss albeit not as much as CPS claimed)
• 1x OPC (no defence apart from 'didn't see the sign' - appeal underway)
• Scottish case (1x decent defence I believe, but landowner suffered continued financial loss)

These tickets can be enforceable if they are a genuine pre-estimate of loss incurred. If you park at McDonalds each day you are effectively depriving them of custom.

As for losses by PPCs, must be in the 30's by now.

thanks for the info.
I'm interested in the mcdonalds scenario: wouldn't a 'loss of custom' be difficult to prove without clear evidence that the park was full on the date and time the pcn was issued?

peter_the_piper

AlexisV wrote: »

Yes, 4 times as far as I know:

• 2x CPS (1x no defence apart from 'didn't see the sign', 1x full defence but landowner probably suffered financial loss albeit not as much as CPS claimed)
• 1x OPC (no defence apart from 'didn't see the sign' - appeal underway)
• Scottish case (1x decent defence I believe, but landowner suffered continued financial loss)

These tickets can be enforceable if they are a genuine pre-estimate of loss incurred. If you park at McDonalds each day you are effectively depriving them of custom.

As for losses by PPCs, must be in the 30's by now.

Don't forget the recent(ish) case where the victim paid, found out that it was an unenforcible invoice, sued and got the money back.