'What religion are you?' poll discussion

msph321

sharrison01 wrote: »

I..... feel that religion does have an important part to play in our society.

Agreed. Looking back on my childhood, it definitely played a part in keeping me out of (lots of potential) trouble. In the end before becoming agnostic, though, the negatives outweighed the positive aspects for me. BUT, one should give respect where respect is due, and religion had its place in my life at one time.

adrian_clark

TBagpuss wrote: »

Really? The "world" wants this? Which world are you referring to? Because it seems unlikly that the planet has formed a philosphical bview on the sbjct, and if by "the world" you mean "people who don't happen to share your religious viewpoint" then it seems rather arrogant to assume either that such a large number of people have a single view, and to try to assert you know what that view is.

I don't consider myself to be religious, but I don't think, or want to convince anyone else, that Jesus (if he in fact existed as a historical individual) was a liar or deciever - I am perfectly ready to accept that he may well have belived what he said. That does not make it true.

You also say

Theories, religions and philosphies such as Christianity, you mean?

I don't presume to speak for what anyone other than myself wants. I don't presume to 'want' for you to believe anything - I am content for you to believe whatever you wish. I just don't want to have YOUR beliefs, or those of the Pope, or of the Chief Rabbi, or my local Iman, or anyone else, foisted upon me.

That's good news. I would not want you to have my beliefs and certainly not any the religious professionals you mention. The world is full lies, liars, false prophets, false religions, philiosophies, ideas and theories. I am simply encouraging you to accept that there is Truth. Once you see that its a useful filter for all the truth claims that dominate our lives through education institutions, cultural trendsetters commentators etc, politicians, the media, all those sources of information that feed our views, ideas and beliefs, especially religious leaders.

Jesus claimed that He was the Truth, the Life and the Way. This is a historical record, coroborrated, witnessed and faithfully recorded before being cross checked. It's a truth that has given foundation to our society through our judiciary, government, common law and culture. It is under attack from a whole range of other truth claims that seek to influence your life, lifestyle and freedoms. Before you reject that kind of monumental truth claim over your life that rejects all other claims as counterfeit, deception, and the work of demonic forces it's at least worth careful investigation. Let's face it, if it's true and your God really is a father who hates and punishes sin, who loves you and came into human history to die for your sins so that you could have eternal life, that is good news.

Conrad

adrian_clark wrote: »

Jesus claimed that He was the Truth, the Life and the Way. This is a historical record, coroborrated, witnessed and faithfully recorded before being cross checked. It's a truth that has given foundation to our society through

And what about the truth that the group of 50 original Christians - one sect amongst hundreds just happened to be favoured by the then Roman emporer, took most of thier stories from much older religions?

I take it as a seeker of truth you do not take the lazy easy to do route, and just accept things without throrough analysis?

Also, why would a God respect robots? Remember relgion throughtout history has on the whole been against investigation.

Surgery was deemed to be devils work by the Church.

You see, if Humanity had let the robot followers have thier way, progress would be stunted indeed. The fact SOME religious people did endeavour to uncover nature, is a side issue.

How come your life crutch God with a deck chair with your name on it did'nt mention the Earth was round or anything about not keeping slaves?

How odd you eat prawns, wear cotton and indulge in other Biblical sins, but choose to uphold the homosexuality sin. Very peculiar fixation with sexual mechanics there.

I do not admire jealous thin skinned entities either. A worthy God is more than happy to let his children explore and would not for 1 minute expect robotic deck chair waiting.

Maybe thier is a God, but for certain is it not seen through a Human template.

I like to search more than just a single book and a worthy God would respect such searching.

adrian_clark

Conrad wrote: »

And what about the truth that the group of 50 original Christians - one sect amongst hundreds just happened to be favoured by the then Roman emporer, took most of thier stories from much older religions?

I take it as a seeker of truth you do not take the lazy easy to do route, and just accept things without throrough analysis?

Also, why would a God respect robots? Remember relgion throughtout history has on the whole been against investigation.

Surgery was deemed to be devils work by the Church.

You see, if Humanity had let the robot followers have thier way, progress would be stunted indeed. The fact SOME religious people did endeavour to uncover nature, is a side issue.

How come your life crutch God with a deck chair with your name on it did'nt mention the Earth was round or anything about not keeping slaves?

How odd you eat prawns, wear cotton and indulge in other Biblical sins, but choose to uphold the homosexuality sin. Very peculiar fixation with sexual mechanics there.

I do not admire jealous thin skinned entities either. A worthy God is more than happy to let his children explore and would not for 1 minute expect robotic deck chair waiting.

Maybe thier is a God, but for certain is it not seen through a Human template.

I like to search more than just a single book and a worthy God would respect such searching.

Great questions thank you. I agree with much of what you say. God has gifted us free will to research and explore. He also gifted us more than a single book. Actually 66 books from around 44 authors all in one compendium, written over the course of 3000 years! What a good way to communicate wisdom to mankind through His Word, the Bible.

And by the way, the early Christians were persecuted and many died for sharing the news of Jesus's death, burial and resurrection. The early church did not take stories from other religions, they reported events. The early Christians, who were devout Jews, had nothing to gain from sharing that Jesus was who he said he was, other than persecution and death. Jesus's own brother, was thrown of the Temple roof for proclaiming Jesus was the risen Messiah, and when he failed to die they clubbed Him to death. These were devout God fearing Jews, there is no other explanation for this out of character behaviour other than it was true.

This is not advice, as offered by the religions and churches of mankind but, news, good news, Jesus conquered death because He Loves you.

tbourner

adrian_clark wrote: »

These were devout God fearing Jews, there is no other explanation for this out of character behaviour other than it was true.

I'm sorry, but there are plenty of other explanations.

adrian_clark

tbourner wrote: »

I'm sorry, but there are plenty of other explanations.

Many have tried with ideas, philosophies and false religions but none have adequately explained the phenomenal impact of an impoverished Galilian interant preacher on human history. Their efforts to dismiss as myth the life of Jesus, who learned a trade with his step-dad in a small rural village, and went on to be accused of blasphemy for claiming to be God, before being brutally murdered at 33 years old, dying, betrayed and abandoned, have failed and human history still revolves around his birth. The power of Jesus's Love, Truth and justice has consistently changed hearts, transformed relationships and given the depressed, abused, neglected, lonely and impoverished purpose and meaning. The foundation of this is grace. Grace from God sending His Son on a rescue mission, to pay the price for all our sin so that despite my nature to tell lies, envy and be proud I can live in truth, in relationship with the source of Love and life. I just happen to love my wife and family enough to want to love them more. I have seen there to be nothing to lose and all to gain from tapping into the incredible love that history records in the life and works of Jesus the Christ.

Red_Doe

deleted, wrong thread, sorry

tbourner

adrian_clark wrote: »

Many have tried with ideas, philosophies and false religions but none have adequately explained the phenomenal impact of an impoverished Galilian interant preacher on human history.

Devout God fearing Jews changing behaviour to a belief that Jesus was the risen Messiah, can be described by these points:

• certainty of belief (held with absolute conviction)
• incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
• impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

Those are the criteria for a psychiatric diagnosis of delusion, which IMO is a far more believable explanation than "It must be true because someone wrote it in a book".

adrian_clark wrote: »

The power of Jesus's Love, Truth and justice has consistently changed hearts, transformed relationships and given the depressed, abused, neglected, lonely and impoverished purpose and meaning.

This I agree with, and I think the loss of religion and fear of God goes a long way to explaining some of the culture we now have, with people of all ages seemingly having no empathy at all to fellow man or animal. That doesn't make it true though.

adrian_clark

tbourner wrote: »

Devout God fearing Jews changing behaviour to a belief that Jesus was the risen Messiah, can be described by these points:

• certainty of belief (held with absolute conviction)
• incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
• impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

Those are the criteria for a psychiatric diagnosis of delusion, which IMO is a far more believable explanation than "It must be true because someone wrote it in a book".



This I agree with, and I think the loss of religion and fear of God goes a long way to explaining some of the culture we now have, with people of all ages seemingly having no empathy at all to fellow man or animal. That doesn't make it true though.

Thank you, great insights. However, it remains intriguing that these devout Jews, steeped in their family, culture and educational tradition with nothing to gain should turn to Jesus as the risen saviour, the Messiah, promised throughout human history in the Jewish Bible, now the Old Testemant. Unless of course, through their own witness, an abundance of testimany and the evidence of changed hearts it proved True. Is our atheistic culture that delivers neglect, abuse, greed, addictions and broken homes not deluded by taking Jesus's life, his love for the poor, the oppressed and outcast, and rejecting it as myth or folklore?

It does not astonish me that our culture continues to reject Him. The world with its illusion of comfort through material wealth to get through a life of pains and struggles is an attractive lie. However, it is intriguing that Jesus has never been ignored. Leaders have spoken of him from Hitler and Mohammad to Ghandi. You can believe who he said he was and that he did what he said he came to do, or reject him as a lunatic but you can't explain him away as simply a good teacher; Jesus's authority has proven too powerful for that.

adrian_clark

msph321 wrote: »

Agreed. Looking back on my childhood, it definitely played a part in keeping me out of (lots of potential) trouble. In the end before becoming agnostic, though, the negatives outweighed the positive aspects for me. BUT, one should give respect where respect is due, and religion had its place in my life at one time.

'Religion' is an ugly constructs that imposes rules upon people so that they may merit their salvation from a capricious god. False religions say if you follow this tradition, pray this prayer in this way and learn all this stuff our god will love you. We see the death and suffering this has caused and continues to cause. This is the nature of evil. It corrupts with attractive promises that turn out to be lies.

It's important to see that God is a God of Love. He's a Father who loves his kids. He remains faithful when we are faithless. Like any parent he simply wants a relationship with his children, He wants to chat with you in prayer. You've done the right thing to reject religion, however, it's important to know Jesus is who He said He was and that this was proven when he resurrected from the dead. It sounds crazy talk to us ordinary people, when all we know is what we know but then we are talking about the Creator of the Universe.

A former Lord Chief Justice of England, Lord Darling, said of the resurrection: 'in its favour as living truth there exists such overwhelming evidence, positive and negative, factual and circumstantial, that no intelligent jury in the world could fail to bring in a verdict that the resurrection story is true.'

It's worth bearing in mind that human history revolves around this penniless Galilian preacher, who never ran a succcessful business, never commanded and army, conquered a nation, married, or wrote a book. He made exclusive Truth claims, faithfully recorded in the Bible that offer purpose, meaning, life and Love. You can either accept Jesus told the truth or reject him as a liar, fraud and maniac but he didn't leave the option open for you to respect him as a good teacher or respectable moral man.