'What religion are you?' poll discussion

Soubrette

k.o.d wrote: »

I think it is well documented that a person called Jesus existed.
I think it is easier to believe him to be a truly noble and spiritual person who could hold an audience in his sway with his oratory powers and his fundamentally good beliefs.
I think it is easier to the believe that people who wanted to bring desparate nations together used his teachings and his example to use as a cement to start the beginnings of a cult.
Even a pope said 'It has served us well, this myth of Christ'

I don't think it is as well documented as people think unless other sources have been discovered in the last decade or so.

I once had a great conversation with a biblical scholar, who had faith but no religious beliefs if that's not too oxymoronic. Apart from biblical or other religious writings, the only references to Jesus are not conclusive and certainly not up to the standards of proof to say that he existed without doubt.

Edited to add - I'm not normally one to moan about spelling but it's spelled ATHEIST - sheesh wouldn't we laugh at a catholic that says they're a cathlick yet so many people describe themselves as athiest - more athiest than just the average athi?

Fifer

adrian_clark wrote: »

I know how frustrating this simple idea can be :mad: unless of course it's true:)

I don't find it frustrating in the slightest. Unconvincing, unlikely and unsatisfactory as any sort of credible explanation, certainly. But it doesn't frustrate me. Why would it?

Soubrette

adrian_clark wrote: »

You are in the same position as Richard Dawkins. He acknowledges in the God delusion that there is no explanation of what came before there was something. I equally rejected God as our creator and the religions that supported the theory seeing religion as an unhelpful human construct. However, the exclusivity of Jesus' claims and his impact on human history was intriguing. It was the consideration of the person and work of Jesus that led my into a relationship with our creator God who is beyond the created order of the universe, exists above time and has been loving his people, created in his image and likeness, throughout time. I know how frustrating this simple idea can be :mad: unless of course it's true:)

Which exclusive claims are those?

k.o.d

Soubrette wrote: »

I don't think it is as well documented as people think unless other sources have been discovered in the last decade or so.

I once had a great conversation with a biblical scholar, who had faith but no religious beliefs if that's not too oxymoronic. Apart from biblical or other religious writings, the only references to Jesus are not conclusive and certainly not up to the standards of proof to say that he existed without doubt.

Edited to add - I'm not normally one to moan about spelling but it's spelled ATHEIST - sheesh wouldn't we laugh at a catholic that says they're a cathlick yet so many people describe themselves as athiest - more athiest than just the average athi?

Where did I use the word atheist?
I did notice a word I had spelled incorrectly, it was supposed to be disparate nations, not desperate.
I can speell proper me.

k.o.d

Soubrette wrote: »

I don't think it is as well documented as people think unless other sources have been discovered in the last decade or so.

Jesus' life has been documented in more than just the bible, certainly a lot more than some of the Apostles, who were only ever documented in the bible and nowhere else.

Vaila

k.o.d wrote: »

Jesus' life has been documented in more than just the bible, certainly a lot more than some of the Apostles, who were only ever documented in the bible and nowhere else.

codswallop, yes the man jesus may have existed but the fantasies and make believe life are flawed with only shrines as evidence

you could easily say the same about Siddhartha Gautama (buddha) who at least we know did not document anything himself and all of his teachings have been passed down through others, who thought that preserving his teachings was more important than writing down the facts of his life

k.o.d

arran_m wrote: »

codswallop, yes the man jesus may have existed but the fantasies and make believe life are flawed with only shrines as evidence

you could easily say the same about Siddhartha Gautama (buddha) who at least we know did not document anything himself and all of his teachings have been passed down through others

What is coswallop? The bit I put about him existing and being documented in literature other than the bible?

adrian_clark

k.o.d wrote: »

I think it is well documented that a person called Jesus existed.
I think it is easier to believe him to be a truly noble and spiritual person who could hold an audience in his sway with his oratory powers and his fundamentally good beliefs.
I think it is easier to the believe that people who wanted to bring desparate nations together used his teachings and his example to use as a cement to start the beginnings of a cult.
Even a pope said 'It has served us well, this myth of Christ'

If any of my teachers tried to claim to be God I would not have called him noble. Liar, lunatic or fraud with fundamentally flawed beliefs would have been closer to my inclination. However, Jesus claimed to be "the truth, the light and the way" and that nobody can come to the father except through him. That exclusively sets him aside from all other religions, prophets and claimants of the truth. You can reject Jesus as the God of the universe, sovereign over time and all creation or you can accept him as a loving father who came into human history and after being murdered resurrected from the dead conquering death, hell and sin. You have the free will to choose.

k.o.d

adrian_clark wrote: »

If any of my teachers tried to claim to be God I would not have called him noble. Liar, lunatic or fraud with fundamentally flawed beliefs would have been closer to my inclination. However, Jesus claimed to be "the truth, the light and the way" and that nobody can come to the father except through him. That exclusively sets him aside from all other religions, prophets and claimants of the truth. You can reject Jesus as the God of the universe, sovereign over time and all creation or you can accept him as a loving father who came into human history and after being murdered resurrected from the dead conquering death, hell and sin. You have the free will to choose.

If someone had said that to me I would have thought him an exceptionally arrogant and self centred person.
I do believe there was a good chap called Jesus who preached peace and understanding for all people and he became a focal point for a cult.
I don't believe he was from God, but I do believe he showed people a better way to live.
And then it was hi-jacked by the Church, and corrupted to how the Church wanted their propaganda put across.
There are too many inconsistencies, too many contradictions to make a case for positive proof.
People wanted something to believe in, having the crop failures, plagues and natural phenomena explained.
Science has opened up the reality to everyone, but the Church will not bring itself into the modern age bacause their foundations are built on sand (to coin a biblical turn of phrase)

adrian_clark

k.o.d wrote: »

If someone had said that to me I would have thought him an exceptionally arrogant and self centred person.
I do believe there was a good chap called Jesus who preached peace and understanding for all people and he became a focal point for a cult.
I don't believe he was from God, but I do believe he showed people a better way to live.
And then it was hi-jacked by the Church, and corrupted to how the Church wanted their propaganda put across.
There are too many inconsistencies, too many contradictions to make a case for positive proof.
People wanted something to believe in, having the crop failures, plagues and natural phenomena explained.
Science has opened up the reality to everyone, but the Church will not bring itself into the modern age bacause their foundations are built on sand (to coin a biblical turn of phrase)

During his earthly life, the man Jesus Christ clearly, repeatedly, and emphatically declared himself to be the only God. This claim is without precedent or peer in the history of the world. Today, a few billion people who worship Jesus Christ as God believe that claim, making him the most significant person who has or will ever live. Luke’s gospel, which I recommend as a useful place for research, gives us the most detailed, historically accurate account of the man who is God. The attitude you express is an amalgam of 20th century atheistic thinking. It is a truth claim devised to rationalize the effect Jesus has had and remains to have on history. I guess at the moment of death we will have the proof to substantiate the truths we uphold.