The Bankruptcy Club & Supporters Club

sandralovescats

skint_geordie2007 wrote:

Thanks, there seems to be an option for "Insolvency" and one for "Bankruptcy" in the Court Work type search. They return a different number of results.
The nearest one to me is South Shields County Court. I am suprised there is not one in Newcastle. However this deals with Bankruptcy and not insolvency. The nearest that deals with Insolvency is probably very far away.
Assuming the South Shields County Court (http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/Search.do?court_id=545) is ok, I just ring them and see what their system is for appointments?

Since you are going bankrupt you need a court which deals with bankruptcy!

missimaxo

sandralovescats wrote:

Debts which occurred prior to the bankruptcy which may not have been known at the time of the bankruptcy are also included in the list of debts within that bankruptcy.

However, I misread the post re it being on domestic rates - mistook it for the lease!

LOL Sandra - again sorry if I sounded harsh!!!! I've had a really bad day! Too many bankrupts and too little time!

sandralovescats

I have just read - on another debt forum - that someone who declared his bicycle at £70 has had a letter from the OR telling him that someone will come to collect it - or he can pay to get it back!

Also, a guy who declared his collection of bottles worth £80 had it taken by the OR, sent to auction where it was sold (to the bankrupt owner, no less!) for £13.50!!

The world - and the OR's - have gone stark-raving mad!

Whilst I don't think anyone should be allowed to get away with anything, there are limits. Yes, if there are expensive paintings, furniture, jewellery ,etc. Look at how much a solid wood Welsh Dresser costs nowadays new.

Mad, quite mad!

Richard_S

missimaxo wrote:

This advice is incorrect. The only proveable debts in bankruptcy are those owed at the date of the bankruptcy order.

Any debts that acrue after the date of the BO still have to be paid - even whilst you are undischarged. Your council tax/ utility bills will still acrue whilst you are undischarged so you have to pay these. The relevant companies should write off all debts to the date of the BO and bill from then on. There is one exception - and that is with council tax. IF the council have billed you for the whole year (eg. you are in arrears, they have taken you to court and demanded the whole payment) then the whole amount should be written off in bankrupcty - but this only happens in a few cases.

Hi Missimaxo and Sandra,

The rates are non domestic rates that relate to commercial property where the lease still has a couple of years to run and as yet the property remains unlet; we were declared bankrupt in June 2006.

Regards

Richard

missimaxo

Richard_S wrote:

Hi Missimaxo and Sandra,

The rates are non domestic rates that relate to commercial property where the lease still has a couple of years to run and as yet the property remains unlet; we were declared bankrupt in June 2006.

Regards

Richard

Hi Richard

I am not in work today (daughters first day at school) so I will check tomorrow. My first thought is have you supplied a copy of the lease to the OR, and if so have they disclaimed it. In theory the lease becomes an asset (even if it has no value) in the bankruptcy. The OR should have it valued - if it has a value they will realise it for the benefit of your creditors (this very rarely happens though). If (as is usual) there is no value to the lease, the OR will disclaim the lease to prevent them being liable for anything as a result of it. I hope that makes sense.

I think (and this is what I will try and check tomorrow) is that as the lease has passed to the OR, your estate, ie. the OR should become liable for the outstanding rates. If they have disclaimed the lease, I don't think they would fall back on you.

Your best bet would be to give your examiner at the OR's office (not the case clerk as this will be beyond their knowledge) a call - explain that you are being chased for payment and get them to check.

HTH txx

missimaxo

sandralovescats wrote:

I have just read - on another debt forum - that someone who declared his bicycle at £70 has had a letter from the OR telling him that someone will come to collect it - or he can pay to get it back!

Also, a guy who declared his collection of bottles worth £80 had it taken by the OR, sent to auction where it was sold (to the bankrupt owner, no less!) for £13.50!!

The world - and the OR's - have gone stark-raving mad!

Whilst I don't think anyone should be allowed to get away with anything, there are limits. Yes, if there are expensive paintings, furniture, jewellery ,etc. Look at how much a solid wood Welsh Dresser costs nowadays new.

Mad, quite mad!

I think this must be a policy that changes from office to office. I know in our office we do not try and realise any assets unless it would be beneficial to the estate. In the case of the above it will cost the OR more in agents fees than would be realised by selling them!

skint_geordie2007

sandralovescats wrote:

I have just read - on another debt forum - that someone who declared his bicycle at £70 has had a letter from the OR telling him that someone will come to collect it - or he can pay to get it back!

Also, a guy who declared his collection of bottles worth £80 had it taken by the OR, sent to auction where it was sold (to the bankrupt owner, no less!) for £13.50!!

The world - and the OR's - have gone stark-raving mad!

Whilst I don't think anyone should be allowed to get away with anything, there are limits. Yes, if there are expensive paintings, furniture, jewellery ,etc. Look at how much a solid wood Welsh Dresser costs nowadays new.

Mad, quite mad!

Is this definately true?
I was under the impression my white goods, furniture , pc , games console etc would be safe? To be honest I would give them to a friend rather then have the humiliation of someone taking them away for what its actually worth to the OR.

missimaxo

skint_geordie2007 wrote:

Is this definately true?
I was under the impression my white goods, furniture , pc , games console etc would be safe? To be honest I would give them to a friend rather then have the humiliation of someone taking them away for what its actually worth to the OR.

The official rule is that we have to leave you with the necessary goods for your reasonable domestic living. White goods and furniture are never touched (unless they are of "excessive" value - ie. antiques). When you fill in your SoA or booklet (if it was a creditors petition) put down the value of goods if you tried to sell them at auction/ 2nd hand. I have seen people value sofas at £2k as that is what they paid - they wouldn't make £50 at auction. In cases where you do have something considered to be of excessive value, eg. an antique table, we have to replace it with a table of lower value as you still need a table.

Again with computers - if 1 month before the bankruptcy you go and buy a £2k computer then yes, that would be taken from you as it is of excssive value. Lets face it, most computers are worth very little (they drop in value so quickly) so again give a true value as sold at auction. I wouldn't mention your games console (unless it is a new Wii bought on credit) - if specifically asked, then again, value it as per auction prices. A PS2 would be worth maybe £20 - £30.

I would never "give things away", to give away assets is an offence before bankruptcy and could lead to a BRO/U. It would depend on their value and your intent in giving them away.

FYI I have never yet taken ANY furniture/ computers/ games consoles of a bankrupt as it would cost more in fees (agents fees) to do it than we would get.

Richard_S

missimaxo wrote:

Hi Richard

I am not in work today (daughters first day at school) so I will check tomorrow. My first thought is have you supplied a copy of the lease to the OR, and if so have they disclaimed it. In theory the lease becomes an asset (even if it has no value) in the bankruptcy. The OR should have it valued - if it has a value they will realise it for the benefit of your creditors (this very rarely happens though). If (as is usual) there is no value to the lease, the OR will disclaim the lease to prevent them being liable for anything as a result of it. I hope that makes sense.

I think (and this is what I will try and check tomorrow) is that as the lease has passed to the OR, your estate, ie. the OR should become liable for the outstanding rates. If they have disclaimed the lease, I don't think they would fall back on you.

Your best bet would be to give your examiner at the OR's office (not the case clerk as this will be beyond their knowledge) a call - explain that you are being chased for payment and get them to check.

HTH txx

Dear missimaxo,

Good luck with your daughters first day at school, we have four grown up children and their first day at school always seemed to be a conflict of emotions.

Many thanks for your reply; it has made sense and I think we may have omitted to supply the O.R with a copy of the lease. It was the property company who were responsible for our bankruptcy and I assumed that they would have been in contact with the O.R and furnished any necessary documentation; I obviously need to do some more work on this.

I didn't realise that you worked as an O.R and I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. Our file has been moved from the original office to another one because our house was involved and I don't think the new office has got on top of things yet.

On top of all the other bad news we had around Christmas and an absolutely awful year I think I've let things get out of perspective.

Once again, thank you very much,

Richard

skint_geordie2007

missimaxo wrote:

The official rule is that we have to leave you with the necessary goods for your reasonable domestic living. White goods and furniture are never touched (unless they are of "excessive" value - ie. antiques). When you fill in your SoA or booklet (if it was a creditors petition) put down the value of goods if you tried to sell them at auction/ 2nd hand. I have seen people value sofas at £2k as that is what they paid - they wouldn't make £50 at auction. In cases where you do have something considered to be of excessive value, eg. an antique table, we have to replace it with a table of lower value as you still need a table.

Again with computers - if 1 month before the bankruptcy you go and buy a £2k computer then yes, that would be taken from you as it is of excssive value. Lets face it, most computers are worth very little (they drop in value so quickly) so again give a true value as sold at auction. I wouldn't mention your games console (unless it is a new Wii bought on credit) - if specifically asked, then again, value it as per auction prices. A PS2 would be worth maybe £20 - £30.

I would never "give things away", to give away assets is an offence before bankruptcy and could lead to a BRO/U. It would depend on their value and your intent in giving them away.

FYI I have never yet taken ANY furniture/ computers/ games consoles of a bankrupt as it would cost more in fees (agents fees) to do it than we would get.

Thank you.
I dont believe I have anything of excessive value, I bought an LCD TV about 6 months ago for 399, but thats probably the most expensive thing I own. I also have a guitar I bought about 18 months ago for about £400. I cant see the value of any of these things being much. I really cant think of anything else. Hopefully they wont take any of my personal posessions. It means alot that there is such a knowledgeable person around here. Thanks.