Stelrad Ideal Elan2 80NF Boiler Won't Switch On

rozel

Hi all

This is my first post so please be gentle and if I have posted in the wrong section, please can a Mod or someone place this thread in the correct forum and advise me

My above boiler is quite old - 1993! but has given relentless and stalwart service with just a few problems from time to time, like a new Fan, occasionally a replacement electrode etc but nothing major.

Just over a week ago I adjusted the Honeywell ST699B Programmer to cut back on both the times for when the boiler was on for Hot Water and Heating for economic reasons.

The following day it was obvious that the boiler had not switched on as the water was completely cold. I fiddled about a bit with the Programmer but nothing would bring the boiler to life so I called our local Plumber who had been out to the boiler in the past - he's not cheap!

He said it's time for a boiler replacement and suggested we fork out for a Potterton replacement - £1600/£1700 incl vat. He could start w/c 27th September. He had to dash as he was going on holiday but before he went I asked him what he found wrong. He said "your PCB - I could replace it for £250 but then again something else might blow in the near future and so please replace your boiler".

Well armed with all the information regarding my Boiler I quickly sourced a replacement PCB on the bay for £65 and I easily fitted it last Wednesday. It seemed obvious that the old one had blown because a component was badly burnt and the smell was really acrid and the front cover of the housing had turned a nasty shade of pale brown!

As soon as I switched everything back on, the boiler sprang to life - to say I was quite pleased with myself was an understatement !!

HOWEVER although it switched off ok at the appropriate time, and switched on again on Thursday am (the water was hot - heating still switched off on the programmer) and came on & off again on Friday morning, it failed to do so Friday afternoon after my wife "advanced" the programmer for early afternoon hot water. It hasn't worked since.

When I mentioned the initial problem to my Plumber, I mentioned that I had been fiddling with the programmer, he said it was a coincidence but given what my wife told me about advancing it on Friday, I am now very doubtful.

I have taken the cover off the Boiler once more to check the PCB and whilst I am unable to test it, it looks completely new with no tell tale signs of burn out as before. Power reaches the Fan as this comes to life when the mains and the switch on the front of the boiler are both on and of course the Programmer is also in an "on" position.

However I simply cannot get the bolier to light - no spark eminates from the electrode.

It seems therefore something might have "blown" before the PCB but I do not know what - a switch, a thermostat, a motorised valve or maybe the programmer itself?

I trecked down to B&Q yesterday and sourced a new Programmer - a Drayton LP522 but whether this will do the trick I am not sure and of course me being me, I am reluctant to go back to my plumber, at least for the moment. I can heat the water via the immersion heater but it is a pain as the on/off switch is in the attic adjacent to the cylinder itself.

I have all the instructions for the boiler, the programmer etal and have read the instructions for the new programmer.

My system was originally installed under the Honeywell "SUNDIAL S PLAN" system as this was included in all the bumpf the original installer left with the new house in 1993. I am unsure what the two motorised valves do exactly nor am I sure about whether I can truly control the water independently of the heating. At the moment the clock timing controls on the programmer, turn the water and the heating on and off at the same time (if they are both on, although at present the heating is off) - I am hopeful that the new programmer will turn them on and off independently.

Ok a lot of dialogue to digest - what I need is: -

1. Can someone to point me in the right direction of what possibly could be wrong at the present time - whilst not an electrician, I can figure things out if I am shown directions - if it is the programmer, how can I tell, if it is the boiler switch on the front, again how can I tell etc etc? I am sure I can source spares. Could it be that the electrode could have blown again for example? - any easy way to check? - it has gone several times before and if maybe, then could this have blown the PCB?

2. Can someone please enlighten me with due regard to my system, whether a. the above programmer can be made to work and b. if it can control the heating and water independently of each other.

Thank you for taking the time to read this epistle but I am keen to save a load of dosh and hopefully there are some experts out there who can help me. Of course I know that my boiler could "expire" soon but what's the worst that could happen - a new heat-exchanger? No, I want to keep my boiler for a few more years yet

TIA

Paul

gas4you

Whilst there is a chance he may be correct, I am not there so cannot say 100% either way, I would be looking at a faulty external control first.

It could be a programmer fault, or maybe a zone valve fault, assuming you have them.

What tests did he do to determine the pcb was faulty? He should have tested for 240VAC at the boiler terminal when it wasn't working as a basic minimum. If the 240VAC wasn't there, then it is definately an external control problem. There is an orange led on the pcb that will glow if the voltage is there as well.

Note this is not intended to tell you to test it for yourself as 240VAC can kill!

rozel

Thanks for replying

I am not sure what tests he did but from what I could see, smell and determine after removing the PCB it had blown a component. If it will help I could upload a picture of the old PCB.

In the meantime here's a pic of the new one - it's quite small in size but I can't see where the orange LED is - can you point it out to me somehow please?

hxxp://i.ebayimg.com/15/!B(!!M4!CGk~$(KGrHgoH-CwEjlLlwwEDBK,G1Iwtp!~~_35.JPG

I am not sure whether I want to test for 240V AC though lol!

I'm not sure what the two motorised valves do.

Hope you or someone can help me as I'm really keen to sort this out

Paul

rozel

Hi again

I have just this minute tried to find the LED but there is no trace of one. The front boiler on/off switch is lit when pressed on but now not even the fan unit comes on - it did before even with the old PCB.

Not sure what is happening here - would like to think it is a blown programmer - is there an easy way to test this?

Paul

gas4you

I am confused now.

You previously said there were no signs of the pcb being blown or damaged and the fan was working but no spark.

You now say you can tell it is damaged.

I also confused myself as I had the Ideal Classic NF on my mind as I had to go out to 2 of them yesterday. oops, sorry!

If the fan worked then it is getting the command to fire from the controls.

As I now realise it is an Elan, I would tend to agree with your engineer and suggest replacement rather than continuing repairs.

rozel

Hi

Not sure why you are confused - the old PCB, which was damaged was replaced with a new one, the one currently installed. Before I started this thread, when I switched on the Boiler at the mains, with the switch on the front (which lights up) and the programmer in the "on" position - the fan unit was working, no problem.

Now when I turn everything on it does not.

I tried to say that the old PCB was definately damaged, the one I replaced. There can be no doubt about it and was suggesting that I could upload pics in case you might want to see it. I was thinking that if you identified the blown component, you might be able to diagnose the cause.

At this point in time, when I turn everything on, the switch on the front of the boiler switch lights up but that's all - the fan doesn't work nor does the electrode spark so as to light the gas.

So something else is to blame - I believe the new, currently installed PCB, is ok.

Hopefully I have clarified things, I'm sorry if I am over complicating things. Ohh and what do you mean by the fact that it's an Elan? - I have read so many good things about it.

I am trying to identify a component which is faulty here which I can replace.

Hopefully it is an easy matter to put right? Any further ideas as to what?

Paul

gas4you

I mean nothing by 'it's an elan' other than the age of it. Thats all..

I'm with you now about the pcb. I must admit that work has gone crazy and I've been working 12 hour days trying to keep up with breakdowns etc, so my brain is a bit fried!!

Rurn the boiler on so the switch is lit, then turn off your heating and hot water at the programmer. This should extinguish the switch light. If it does and then when you turn them back on the boiler is getting the command to come on.

There is a small 2 amp fuse on the pcb. This could have blown, but as this is a special fuse, I doubt you would have one to replace it to test it.

If you can test it, make sure you have TURNED OFF ALL POWER to the heating system and boiler, not just the boiler on/off switch, before you remove it.

rozel

Many thanks for keeping interested in this - I am really grateful

I have done what you have said - the switch light on the boiler extinguished after turning the heating and water controls to the off position on the programmer. After a couple of seconds or so after turning them back on, the switch light came back on So it is receiving commands.

I tested that fuse earlier it was ok. After carrying out the procedure you described just now, it is still ok

The front cover of the boiler is removed and when everything is turned on, I can hear a pump noise, but the main fan control on the boiler doesn't spin - the fan remains stationary.

Does this help at all? - I do hope so

Paul

gas4you

Well it confirms it is a boiler fault.

Sadly though, because anything further will entail testing live 240VAC terminals, I do not feel able or comfortable to instruct you further.

This is not doubting you or your ability, but is just generally not telling someone to do anything that could be dangerous.

rozel

OK thank you - one last question - are you of the opinion that it definately is not the programmer in any way? After all it was when I adjusted this after quite a long time that I have had the problems and again last Friday when my wife advanced the timer.

Just want to eliminate that at least

Paul

gas4you

You have proved the boiler is getting the voltage to tell it to operate by your boiler switch going on and off depending on whether your programmer is on or off.

I would be looking at the boiler now.