Immigration, houses and upbringing

olly300

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Work ethic and self discipline comes from the home: lack of it isn't just a UK disease. I've worked in enough international offices and deal with a lot of other countries daily, to be able to state that as a fact.

People forget that anyone willing and able to emigrate to another country tends to be a hard working individual and not typical of the country they come from.

This is regardless of whether they are a British person working aboard or someone else coming here.

I remember a Polish woman moaning a few years ago that she couldn't go back to Poland to retire because only the dross where left in the country.

bendix

olly300 wrote: »

People forget that anyone willing and able to emigrate to another country tends to be a hard working individual and not typical of the country they come from.

This is regardless of whether they are a British person working aboard or someone else coming here.
.

Never a truer word spoken. It's ironic that the more knuckle-dragging haters of immigration are exactly the same type who live in the same town they were born in and whose experience of overseas is a fortnight to some crappy runcorn satellite outposting in Benidorm.

MissMoneypenny

macaque wrote: »

Ask yourself why employers are screaming for immigration caps to be lifted when we have 8 million people 'economically inactive' and soaring levels of youth unemployment.

Just for the tier 2 visas*. The MAC report to government said that no employer had given support for the tier 1 visas**. The firm I work for want tier 2s so that we can swap our staff between London and New York. MAC suggests raising the tier 2 caps at the expense of the tier 1s cap.

America have caps on immigrants, in fact, most western countries have caps so it was only a matter of time before that came in here too. It hasn't harmed others countries economies and they are being bought in to the UK for the same reason other countries have them; to protect the UKs economy.

*Tier 2 visa holder. They are bought to the UK by a business/government department/council and have a job waiting for them. Can only work in that job. Usually the job is on the UKs skills shortages list, but always has to be advertised first to give preference to UK and EU citizens. This has not always been the case and to protect the UK and EU citizens, this government want to restrict tier 2 numbers per company, to make sure the company or government office are only bringing/renewing visas, of those they really can't find in the UK or EU workforce.

** Tier 1 visa holders. (Have a masters degree in any subject at all: although the government recently brought in that they had to have a masters degree in the same subject as their degree).

A study from the UK border agency on Tier 1 PSW visa holders, showed that only 18% of people on these visas ended up doing what the government would deem a tier 1 job. While the US (who has immigration caps) states that people on this type of visa can only work in their own field, the UK do not. I.e. under the present system in the UK, they could work as a shelf stacker on a tier 1.

Tier 1 renewals required a very low salary of just 20k and the recent jump to 30k has done a lot to sort this, but it is still easy to get around using country multipliers i.e. someone working in India can multiply their salary by 5. 5 to see if they meet the minimum of 30K. This has been abused as some have been sending a lot of their UK salary home and then using their countries multiplier to get a tier 1 visa. This was recently stopped by the government who have said that UK earnings cannot have a multiplier. Like all systems, this visa is still being abused by some.

This government is proposing a tier 1 cap based on the New Zealand cap "pool" system. All those who meet the tier 1 criteria, can elect to go in a "pool" for 6 months and every 3 months business and government will cream off the top and give them a tier 1 visa.

The government are now looking at other types of visas to the UK. i.e. settlement visas. At the moment, no criminal checks are done on settlement visas: or someone who is banned from the UK, can return if they just get a spouse visa. Just days for newly marrieds to get a spouse visa to the UK, but at least a year to get a spouse visa to the US as they run lots of checks and they require their citizen to have a good salary to show they can support their spouse.

Percy1983

I think we have the split wrong, I don't care where people come from, if they are willing to work then so be it, likkwise if someone isn't willing to work send them elsewhere.

Maybe we could do a swap scheme, I remember watching a program a while ago and there was an african man who wanted nothing more than an education and a decent job, why not swap him with a Chav who doesn't want to work. I am sure he will work hard here in the UK and the Chav we export will have to work or starve, no population change, benefits bill lowered, crime rate reduced... everybody is a winner.

ukcarper

It’s very easy to criticise so-called chaves but “by the grace of god”.

olly300

ukcarper wrote: »

It’s very easy to criticise so-called chaves but “by the grace of god”.

While I don't agree with Percy1983 language, he was talking about people who don't want to work because the benefits system means they can survive sufficiently without working.

ukcarper

What I meant was where you are born has a big effect on you. I agree something has to be done but criticising a girl that in all probability would have turn out to be a nice middle class girl if she had been born into a nice middle class family is not very productive. .

MissMoneypenny

Percy1983 wrote: »

Maybe we could do a swap scheme, I remember watching a program a while ago and there was an african man who wanted nothing more than an education and a decent job, why not swap him with a Chav who doesn't want to work. I am sure he will work hard here in the UK and the Chav we export will have to work or starve, no population change, benefits bill lowered, crime rate reduced... everybody is a winner.

There are plenty of people who come to the UK for benefits and don't want to work (or work much): just like the UK has people already here that don't want to work (or work much). Trying to pretend otherwise is just silly.

olly300

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

There are plenty of people who come to the UK for benefits and don't want to work (or work much):

No there aren't.

The ones you see in the papers are the exception which is why they are reported.

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

just like the UK has people already here that don't want to work (or work much). Trying to pretend otherwise is just silly.

We all know that and we all know part of the cause.

Percy1983

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

There are plenty of people who come to the UK for benefits and don't want to work (or work much): just like the UK has people already here that don't want to work (or work much). Trying to pretend otherwise is just silly.

I think that was the point I was trying to make, rather than saying the indigenous or the immigrants are the problem, we should seperate into workers and none workers regardless of where they are from.

Workers in, none workers out, simples...