B&Q Wind Turbines (Merged Thread)

Skiduck

LizEstelle wrote:

You want the price to come down? .. howsabout the government insisting that ALL government and local government buildings, hospitals, schools, MOD etc etc should have solar and wind power generation installed? Howsabout them insisting on the same for ALL new build private developments?

Will they? No.

Why? Because between all 200 government ministers and junior ministers, they haven't got the collective imagination of a shrew. . .

According to the White Paper, produced by the office of the Dep Prime Minister, all new builds from April 2007 will have to have 20% sustainable sourcing ie, solar, rainwater harvesting, wind turbines etc.

Mikeyorks

Sarahsaver wrote:

If you think of a velux window, well a similar sized opening in the roof with a turbine inside, that sort of thing.

Sorry .. I'm still not getting it. Turbines need to be in 'free air' to prevent turbulence upsetting them and causing premature wear. They also need to be able to pick up the wind from it's various directions? Building a roof over it is a bit like investing in a green sewerage system - then connecting your loo to the mains!

Morseman

Being 'in' the energy efficiency industry I get a lot of people asking me about wind and solar power.

There are pros and cons, but considering I'm looking to try and help comercial and industrial companies save energy, and hence CO2 you might think that I'd have solar panels all over the house, a wind generator and be digging in geoenergy coils.

The fact is, I'm not, for the following reasons...

Wind - According to DTi figures, the average wind speed here is about 6.3m/s, the B&Q generator gives 1kW at 12.5m/s, so I would get about 0.5kW per hour when the wind blows. Plus, that is for a generator at 25m agl, that's about 80 feet off the ground! Then you have to think that, at low levels like 10m, which is the lowest that the DTi give average wind speed figures for, other buildings and trees will disturb the wind flow and reduce the speed of the generator.

Solar - Retrofitting solar panels is expensive, just as for any additional building work. And you need to be careful who you get in to do the job...

For Photovoltaic (where the Suns energy is converted to DC electricity) cells there is a need to store the energy in batteries, that's about a 5% loss of energy as you have to include the copper losses between the cells and the battery. Then you either instal DC lights and equipment, or convert the DC from the battery to AC (about another 5% loss) to feed the mains. I did a calculation for someone to get 2.4kW of power, on the AC side, from a photovoltaic system and it paid back in between 100 and 150 years, depending upon the capacity of the battery (you need the battery to allow for days when the Sun doesn't shine enough to keep the battery fully topped up) and the size of the battery controller needed to manage the current from the solar cells. You cannot use a car battery as it isn't designed for this sort of work. Plus, many of the calculations assume that the Sun is as high in the sky as at the equator, and there are no clouds, trees or other buildings in the way.

The other solar system converts the Suns energy into heat and that heats hot water, which is then passed to a coil to preheat water in a tank. The same problems occur as for photovoltaic systems with regard to trees/buildings and being further north than the equator. However, other problems are losses in pipes to get the hot water to the water tank, losses in the tank, even if well lagged, and the need for a pump if the tank is a long way from the panel. Although, in most domestic situation gravity is OK, but you gave to remember that the water has to get back up to the solar panel.

The only person I know of who made a solar water heating system pay for itself was someone who made it themself and maintains it as well. The rest of us have to pay someone to fit the panels, drill the walls, replace the water tank with one that has a coil inside (the water from the panel stays in the system, and heats the water in the tank through a coil of copper pipe) and then you need to have it maintained every year.

A colleague of mine, another energy efficiency engineer, has a holiday home in Turkey and he had the solar water heater disconnected because the maintenance was costing more than he saved on heating water, even if he used an electrical immersion heater.

It's all very well want to be green and save CO2, but you can do alot more by fitting energy efficient bulbs, washing cloths on a lower setting, switching the TV completely off (not leaving it on standby), switching the PC and any CRT (or replace the CRT screen with a TFT type) monitors off when you go to bed and only boil enogh water in akettle for the amount of drinks you want to make at a time.

Slow cookers are another good idea. I made a stew in one using less than 0.5kWh of electricity in a 6 hour cooking time. I did quickly fry the diced beef, but that used gas to quickly heat a small amount of vegetable oild, so probably didn't add much more energy. Compair that with even a gas gooker on a low setting and you will probably find the slow cooker uses less energy and cost less to cook the stew.

halloweenqueen_2

Thanks! I do all the energy/moneysaving things you suggest above, might se what feedback there is after the first flush of people having them!

George_Bray

owen2k wrote:

you are probably looking at around 1000 pounds in total then thats including the goverment handout. (without that it would be more)...t will probably take around 10 years to pay for its self before any savings can be looked at and by or before then it would have probably needed maintenance meaning more outgoings, i for one wouldnt risk it.

I agree. The manufacturer's leaflet and/or video playing at B&Q stores says the payback period is 5 or 7 years. It also says the wind turbine has a design life of about 10 years. What a joke. The payback period of 5 or 7 years is likely to be wildly optimistic - they don't state which area of the UK it's based on - so my guess is that you would never get a return on your investment.

Also, it has no battery (a real weakness in my opinion) so you either use electricity while the wind's blowing, lose out entirely, or sell 'surplus' at a very low price to your electricity company.

Regards
George

Gorgeous_George

Remember to factor in the loss of interest on the money that you spend buying 'green' products.

£1,000 off your mortage would save you £550 in 10 years so, £1,000 spent today needs to recover £1,550 over ten years to break even.

I think only green people will buy wind turbines from B&Q. That's green as in naive or gullible.



GG

misterjingles

I see there's a lot of media interest in these new domestic wind turbines on sale at B&Q.

Anyone got any independent ( not the sales blurb ) views on payback time on these units ??

Graham1

I suggest reading:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=91721

Cardew

misterjingles wrote:

I see there's a lot of media interest in these new domestic wind turbines on sale at B&Q.

Anyone got any independent ( not the sales blurb ) views on payback time on these units ??

Yes!
If you are realistic in your calculation of payback time, you will never recover your costs.

By that I mean include the cost of borrowing the money to pay for it, or loss of interest on savings.

Bear in mind it needs servicing.

Also how long can we expect any mechanical device to last when stuck up a pole and subjected to all British weather can throw at it.

IanW555

mikeywills wrote:

Not sure this is the case everywhere, but I have heard of them requiring planning permission?

I would like to have a wind turbine, so I contacted my council (Rochford, Essex) who were very negative about it and said that you do need planning permission and would probably end up at appeal. This would all cost alot of money and would not be viable. This is a terrible attitude in this day and age when we should all be going green.