Boiler/heating advice wanted

ran123ran_2

Please help with my heating problem.....

I Have detatched house with radiators in
4 bedrooms
1 ensuite
1 main bathroom
1 in lounge
1 in dining room
1 in kitchen
1 in utility
1 downstairs loo
1 in hallway
1 in office

All the radiators have thermostatic valves apart from the one in hallway as its a feeder.

Current boiler is about 15 years old (not had any problems with this in the 3 years we've been in the house).

We have an electric shower in the main bathroom with very little pressure. Theres a power shower in the ensuite (runs of hot & cold water supply).

The problem with the house is that the downstars just doesn't heat up very well. It takes about 2 hours for it to start feeling warm whereas the upstairs heats up very nicely a lot sooner. The back of the house is north facing ... this is where the kitchen, utility & dining room are and these are probably the coldest rooms in the house.

I've had various suggestions from family/friends...
1) The downstairs radiators are too small .. I measured these and checked the BTU on B&Q website. This did show that the rooms required bigger radiators...

2) Powerflush

3) Construction of the house...correct insulation not been used downstairs...not sure about this one?? I alredy have loft insulation but no cavity wall insualtion

4) Boiler too old..

I have had quote from BG to fit an extra radiator in lounge and replace 4 other radiators for bigger ones, along with powerflush, some type of magnetic filter and a conventional condesing boiler GLOWWORM FLEXICOM 24 & various other bits of work relating to the install...their quote was just under £2900. They said this should fix my heating problem.

The other option I have is that I have qualified to get some work done upto the value of £4k under the energy assistance package in scotland. Under this I will have to pay just over £2200 and will end up with a brand new system (all new pipes, radiators, POTTERTON PROMAX 24HE combi boiler). The problem with this option is
*the upheaval of having to move furniture & lift flooring all over then putting it all right
*I have been told I will not be able to use my power shower....don't know what my options are regarding this....can I use some other type of shower & how much will this cost me?

Please can any one advise on what the best option is?

gas4you

Until you get 1) correct you are hitting your head against a brick wall.

Oh, forget that quote from BG for a flexibomb

Owain_Moneysaver

ran123ran wrote: »

The problem with the house is that the downstars just doesn't heat up very well. It takes about 2 hours for it to start feeling warm whereas the upstairs heats up very nicely a lot sooner. The back of the house is north facing ... this is where the kitchen, utility & dining room are and these are probably the coldest rooms in the house.

I've had various suggestions from family/friends...
1) The downstairs radiators are too small .. I measured these and checked the BTU on B&Q website. This did show that the rooms required bigger radiators...

And that the system is not balanced. You can balance it yourself with an IR thermometer (costs about £40 from Maplin or CPC) instructions here

ran123ran wrote: »

2) Powerflush

Unlikely unless there's an actual blockage

ran123ran wrote: »

3) Construction of the house...correct insulation not been used downstairs...not sure about this one?? I alredy have loft insulation but no cavity wall insualtion

4) Boiler too old..

No. The laws of thermodynamics are not dependent on the age of the boiler.

ran123ran wrote: »

I have had quote from BG to fit an extra radiator in lounge and replace 4 other radiators for bigger ones, along with powerflush, some type of magnetic filter and a conventional condesing boiler GLOWWORM FLEXICOM 24 & various other bits of work relating to the install...their quote was just under £2900. They said this should fix my heating problem.

Quite probably it would, provided they rebalance the system properly, but a half decent plumber would do the same job for less than BG.

It might be worth doing some heatloss calculations to decide whether your boiler actually is undersized, in which case a new boiler is needed, or just needs setting up properly. In particular is it more or less than 24kW which is the presumably output of both the suggested Glowworm and Potterton bioller?

ran123ran wrote: »

The other option I have is that I have qualified to get some work done upto the value of £4k under the energy assistance package in scotland. Under this I will have to pay just over £2200 and will end up with a brand new system (all new pipes, radiators, POTTERTON PROMAX 24HE combi boiler).

Well at least it's not a Suprima, but I don't think any Pottertons have the best reputation.

Unfortunately a 24kW combi will not produce an outstanding shower and will be decidedly sluggish running a bath. It certainly won't do both at once in winter when the incoming cold water is really cold.

ran123ran wrote: »

The problem with this option is
*the upheaval of having to move furniture & lift flooring all over then putting it all right
*I have been told I will not be able to use my power shower....don't know what my options are regarding this....can I use some other type of shower & how much will this cost me?

You cannot use a pumped power shower direct from the mains. You would use a thermostatic mixer shower and it is quite possible that it will deliver less from a 24kW combi boiler than it can from a cylinder of hot water and a pump.

ran123ran wrote: »

Please can any one advise on what the best option is?

Personally I'd do some heatloss calcs and rebalance the radiators. Costs very little.

Might also be worth putting upstairs and downstairs on separate radiator zones (which plumbers call S PLan Plus) so you can time each zone separately, so the downstairs can have priority. If the pipes are conveniently placed this should be a day's work for a plumber.

I would not recommend a combi for a 4 bed 2 bath family home. And also a combi usually means you lose the HW cylinder, so lose the immersion backup. It is possible to put a HW cylinder on a combi boiler, using the combi hot water for a shower or for the kitchen, and the cylinder for the baths, but it's a bit avant garde for most plumbers.

Owain_Moneysaver

ran123ran wrote: »

We have an electric shower in the main bathroom with very little pressure.

Probably just forget the combi altogether then.

Cardew

Good advice above.

Fitting a bigger radiator to the cold rooms is a cheap option.

Pincher

ran123ran wrote: »

The problem with the house is that the downstars just doesn't heat up very well. It takes about 2 hours for it to start feeling warm whereas the upstairs heats up very nicely a lot sooner.

a brand new system (all new pipes, radiators, POTTERTON PROMAX 24HE combi boiler).

You have the typical symptom when all the lockshield (return) valves are fully open. The hot flow from the boiler rush to the upstairs radiators, and promptly return to the boiler. The cost free option is to balance the radiators by adjusting the lockshield valves.

I had a plumber put in a Potterton Promax FSB 30HE this year, to replace a Potterton Kingfisher II, which was trouble free for 20 years, so I'm a fan. Their aftersales service is called Heat Team, which was prompt, efficient and professional. A label was causing arcing across the high tension leads, which was replaced with no fuss, and the Promax has been roaring away ever since. There's no fancy stuff like weather compensation, though.

ran123ran_2

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

Might also be worth putting upstairs and downstairs on separate radiator zones (which plumbers call S PLan Plus) so you can time each zone separately, so the downstairs can have priority. If the pipes are conveniently placed this should be a day's work for a plumber.

Thanks for your reply....a few more questions...

Any ideas how much this could cost me?
Will it involve lifiting floors? Near boiler? Near hot water cylinder?

I just want to be prepared as usually when a trade person quotes me for work always comes up with a ridiclously high figure or offers a different option to which I can't benchmark their quote.

ran123ran_2

Pincher wrote: »

I had a plumber put in a Potterton Promax FSB 30HE this year, to replace a Potterton Kingfisher II, which was trouble free for 20 years, so I'm a fan. .

Is that a COMBI? What type of house do you have / how many rooms / bathrooms? The surveyor that called round today said that if 2 people were using water same time there would be no loss ....is that the case with you?

Cardew

ran123ran wrote: »

Is that a COMBI? What type of house do you have / how many rooms / bathrooms? The surveyor that called round today said that if 2 people were using water same time there would be no loss ....is that the case with you?

As said above, I wouldn't have a combi with 2 bathrooms. In winter even a big combi will not have a great flow for one bath - let alone two.

Owain_Moneysaver

ran123ran wrote: »

Thanks for your reply....a few more questions...

Any ideas how much this could cost me?
Will it involve lifiting floors? Near boiler? Near hot water cylinder?

Depends entirely on where your pipes run, if you have an upstairs circuit and a downstairs circuit and they meet in the airing cupboard or wherever your pump and valves are at the moment then splitting them into two circuits for S Plan Plus would be fairly straightforward.

If you have one circuit round the house and the upstairs and downstairs rads tee off it willynilly then it's won't be at all easy.

Balancing your radiators however is a DIY job using the instructions given and a £40 IR thermometer and this would be a sensible first step.

Pincher

ran123ran wrote: »

Is that a COMBI? What type of house do you have / how many rooms / bathrooms? The surveyor that called round today said that if 2 people were using water same time there would be no loss ....is that the case with you?

The Promax FSB 30HE is NOT a combi, but Promax comes in combi versions as well, which your quote was for. I'm just providing a positive feedback for Potterton as a brand. It's in a four bed two bath with a cylinder, which supplies one bathroom from the loft tank. The other bathroom is supplied by a separate gas water heater from the mains.

The mains supply is a 15mm lead pipe, so it does not have suffcient flow rate for two showers, hence one shower is from the loft tank.

This configuration provides a degree of redundancy, so one bathroom has hot water if the other fails.