Stove - Hetas Installer or Building Control Certified?

simcla

I am about to purchase a Multifuel Defra smoke control exempt stove. I have access to competent builders, who are not Hetas approved. What are the pro's and con's of A) Using a Hetas approved installer of carrying out the work or getting the work carried out by a non Hetas approved builder and getting the work certified by Building Control.

FYI _ It is a modern 175mm cross section external masonry chimney, there is a flue gather that need removing to enlarge the builders opening to take the stove (5KW) and there are already 2No existing fixed vents in the room, and lintels need to be installed once the flue gather has been removed.

hethmar

Well, you will get a certificate either way. But the HETAS installer hopefully will have had a lot more experience. If you are happy with the builders and they are competent to do the job, they should probably charge less if they are already on site and doing your other building works. Building control charges up to £100 to come up before the job and then return to inspect and sign it off.

w50nky

I am just installing my own stove at the moment. Building control in my area charge £129.75 for building notice fees. When I spoke to them in February I was quoted £60. Must be inflation I guess. If you search your local building control website they may list their fees along with forms and building regs etc.

crphillips

With any trade your always best going with someone recommended.

I think there's a much better chance of getting someone who knows what they're doing if you use a HETAS fitter whereas if you use a builder theres a pretty good chance they won't know what they're doing.

I condemned an installation that i swept today. The house was built two years ago and the present owner bought it from the builder. When i went to sweep it there were a number of problems which made it very dangerous.

1) The legs on the stove had not been adjusted which caused the stove to rock which then caused the fire cement seal to crack and fall out around the flue spigot.

2) The 4 inch flue from the stove went into a 9 inch clay lined flue. No sweeping access was provided therefore the flue could not be swept.

3) The fireplace recess was plasterboarded and skimmed. Plasterboard is a combustible material......the rear wall of the fireplace was severely crazed and cracked after very little use. Plaster should never be used in a fireplace recess.

4) The flue was sealed into the chimney with High Temp Silicone which cannot withstand the temps that a solid fuel fire reaches and usually sets on fire.

5) Wooden skirting board was installed within the recess and was only 2 inch away for the rear of the stove where the manual states 800mm clearance!

6) A decorative pot guard (to keep the birds out of disused flues) was installed to a working flue. Therefore the sweep cannot get his brush out of the top of the chimney pot which would eventually mean that the pot will clog with soot.

7) This one isn't really a fault but simply carelessness when it comes to the finishing touches.....they'd not sprayed the top of the stove and flue pipe so it was a mess from the fire cement. Also the spigot was 180 degrees out and the part number that is cast into the spigot was in full view of anyone sat on the sofa which is unsightly and finally the welded seem on the Vitreous stove pipe was at the front once again on view to anyone sat in the room. This could have easily been swivelled to the rear which all provides clues that the person who installed it hasn't done many before.

The builder had made a very nice job of the rest of the house and obviously considered himself as competent. He obviously didn't have a clue about stoves and fireplaces though. The worst thing is that it had been signed of by building control!

Even worse is that there are another 9 houses on the estate with exactly the same setup!

I've advised that i supply a report and they either look at the builder to correct the problems or the builder pays someone to correct it. I estimated around £1200 - £1300 to put it right. Costly if you can't claim from a builder.

Whoever you use they need to have experience in installing solid fuel appliances and they need to fully understand Part J of the Building Regs.

Good Luck!

Alycidon

Always use a HETAS registered engineer, I am involved in the stove industry and also see unsafe installations on a regular basis, usually these have been installed by builders/handymen etc who have no idea about things like combustible clearances and Building Regs. I did have a building inspector into the showroom a few weeks ago looking for a stove for his own house, , he had no idea at of the regs appertaining to stoves at all yet is is able to go out and sign off an installation as safe to use!!.

I hasten to add that it is NOT a legal requirement to use a Hetas engineer but it should be!!.

A

stoveman

I totally agree. Getting building control in will save you a few £££ but are you getting sound advice? 9 time out of 10 no! Its a guy in a suit who has probably never fitted a stove in his/her life.

Get a proffessional in and get it right first time.

As the old saying goes BE SAFE NOT SORRY

A._Badger

Alycidon wrote: »

Always use a HETAS registered engineer, I am involved in the stove industry and also see unsafe installations on a regular basis, usually these have been installed by builders/handymen etc who have no idea about things like combustible clearances and Building Regs. I did have a building inspector into the showroom a few weeks ago looking for a stove for his own house, , he had no idea at of the regs appertaining to stoves at all yet is is able to go out and sign off an installation as safe to use!!.

I hasten to add that it is NOT a legal requirement to use a Hetas engineer but it should be!!.

A

You wouldn't happen to be a HETAS installer, by any chance, would you?

welda

Should be changed to jobs for the boys club :j

crphillips

When we first started to install stoves it took us a good while to find out what worked and what didn't.

You only get to know the building regs by doing the work. If your not doing it regular then you'll not remember the regs.

It was really only when we started to sweep chimneys around 3-4 years ago that we became aware of the issues with the way that most people install stoves (ourselves included) that we totally changed the way we installed them and changed the materials we used.

After sweeping around 20 stoves or so through the access door in a closure plate we soon realised that this was a dreadful way to install and maintain a stove and due to the issues with tar leaking out of the flue we pretty much decided to re-line every flue except those that were clay/concrete/pumice lined and could be connected to with a clay liner adapter.

We also changed the materials we used to line out the recess of a fireplace because we realised that plaster, fire board and cement based render doesn't stand up to the heat unless there's plenty of clearance between the stove and the recess walls.

My main point is that no matter how skilled the builder they simply don't have the experience of installing thousands of stoves and dealing with the problems they're causing by carrying out installs in the way they do.

Also HETAS installers that don't sweep chimneys are pretty clueless about the problems they're causing by installing stoves in the manner they do. A good 30 - 40% of the chimneys i went to every year weren't sweepable. Also some sweeps don't tell you your flue isn't sweepable so they'll pretend they've swept it and take your money. You've paid your money but are no less at risk of a chimney fire.

Fortunately for us we pretty much only sweep the flues that we installed so sweeping is always possible.

welda

Reads like very few are capable of doing safe and decent stove installations, even some who are afilliated to HETAS.

Maybe it is time government implemented similar trade tests that Gas Safe engineers have to renew before continuing with installing/servicing gas appliances.

Same for my trade, if doing quality work, I have to sit a trade test to prove competence. H&V pipefitter welders resit trade test every three year, what do you think, trade test required??

crphillips

Wouldn't be a bad idea.......don't think making it government run solves any issues though. Just another profit making organisation out to maximize profits.

Random inspection of installations and a '3 strikes and your out' system by HETAS would be more than ample.