My electricity meter is supplying two flats

Ignite

Yep, as !!!!!! has said, it looks like the meter is for the other flat and the prepay should be for yours. What has happened is that at some point in the past, somebody has disconnected the prepay meter and connected your supply to the other flat

WARNING The tails that have been disconnected could be live if there was any credit left on that prepay meter. Is there anything at all in the display?

I think that an electrician will confirm all of this.

Now once you have a report and bring EDF into this, they will probably count this as fraud. However, as you have been paying the bill for both of the flats, they wouldn't be coming to you as the perpetrator of the crime. If you had committed the crime, why would you be paying the bills?

OK, to recap from what we can see.

1) Credit meter is meant to be for other flat.
2) Prepay meter is meant to be for your flat.
3) Switch 1 is other flat
4) Switch 2 is your flat
5) In the past, somebody has disconnected the prepay from your flat and tapped into the other flats supply.
6) Despite all of this, you are paying for both flats power. Therefore it can be clearly seen that you are not trying to defraud but want to get this sorted.

When EDF start looking into this, don't be surprised if the police get brought in as a fraud has been committed. DON'T WORRY. They will start looking to the previous owners of your flat. The prepay meter will probably get removed and from this, they may be able to tell when all of this was done - when the last topup on the meter was done etc.

Ignite

CandyBar wrote: »

The complete story is that there is another meter in the communal area, which has its own supply, and is a prepayment meter. It has been disconnected (grey wires coming from it are disconnected) due to debt (and incidentally EDF once sent me a letter saying they wanted to get in touch with the people who used this meter). When I moved in the electricity companies all wanted to supply me on this prepayment meter but since it was disconnected I knew this couldn't be the one supplying my flat.

On reading back through this, this confirms that somebody in your flat has in the past disconnected the output of the meter from your flat and hooked your flat on to the other flats supply. If it was disconnected by the supplier, it would be the 100amp input fuse that would have been removed, not the output from the meter. Where do you get Debt from? Is it in the display? If so, it is because the meter is still connected to the supply and is adding up a debt due to the standing charge.

dunloadin

Nice photo...can only agree with others that it looks like it's been bypassed. Cant see the disconnected tails from the pp meter, but happy to take you word for it, should think it will be sorted out pretty quickly, keep us posted!

CandyBar_2

Ignite wrote: »

Yep, as !!!!!! has said, it looks like the meter is for the other flat and the prepay should be for yours. What has happened is that at some point in the past, somebody has disconnected the prepay meter and connected your supply to the other flat

WARNING The tails that have been disconnected could be live if there was any credit left on that prepay meter. Is there anything at all in the display?

The display has said £248.01 DEBIT ever since I moved in. The kWh counter has not changed either.

I think that an electrician will confirm all of this.

Yes, what bothers me more is what will happen next. The issue of most concern to me is having a second meter. A simple way of doing this would, I guess, be to replace the prepayment meter with a credit meter, and shift Switch 2 to this new meter. This way, both flats are on completely separate supplies, and there is no need to actually bring in a new supply. I expect it will take ages to get to this stage though - for the past 11 months, EDF have supposedly been 'investigating' why there were hundreds of thousands of kWh on my (credit) meter when I moved in (obviously I know it is because two flats have been using it since 2005ish), but I doubt they have done anything.

Now once you have a report and bring EDF into this, they will probably count this as fraud. However, as you have been paying the bill for both of the flats, they wouldn't be coming to you as the perpetrator of the crime. If you had committed the crime, why would you be paying the bills?

Yes the woman I talked to at EDF (not from revenue protection, as they close at 5pm!) said that if the tampering was confirmed they'd involve the police. This bothers me though because it is likely to create problems for my neighbour - whether he has actually been paying EDF £30/month or not. But I suppose there is no way around it.

OK, to recap from what we can see.

1) Credit meter is meant to be for other flat. - Agreed
2) Prepay meter is meant to be for your flat. - Agreed
3) Switch 1 is other flat - Agreed
4) Switch 2 is your flat - Agreed
5) In the past, somebody has disconnected the prepay from your flat and tapped into the other flats supply. - Agreed
6) Despite all of this, you are paying for both flats power. Therefore it can be clearly seen that you are not trying to defraud but want to get this sorted. - I would hope so!

When EDF start looking into this, don't be surprised if the police get brought in as a fraud has been committed. DON'T WORRY. They will start looking to the previous owners of your flat. The prepay meter will probably get removed and from this, they may be able to tell when all of this was done - when the last topup on the meter was done etc.

I think EDF told me the prepayment meter hasn't been used since 2005. This would fit as it's when the credit meter (pictured) was installed. Somebody figured out that no electricity supplier was billing for that meter, so both flats decided to use it I guess.

On reading back through this, this confirms that somebody in your flat has in the past disconnected the output of the meter from your flat and hooked your flat on to the other flats supply. If it was disconnected by the supplier, it would be the 100amp input fuse that would have been removed, not the output from the meter.

EDF confirmed to me that as far as they're concerned the prepayment meter is still active - they have not disconnected it. They said if they disconnect a meter they remove it, so if it's still there but with the wires disconnected, that is not their doing (and they said they'd start investigating that now, since there is no need for an electrician to prove that). In fact, now I think about it, perhaps I can get them to come investigate the whole thing without needing to call out an electrician...?

Nice photo...can only agree with others that it looks like it's been bypassed. Cant see the disconnected tails from the pp meter, but happy to take you word for it, should think it will be sorted out pretty quickly, keep us posted!

I sure hope so, I have wasted all day on this and it's really stressing me out .

Ignite

Hi,

First thing I can say is relax. You don't need to get stressed. You have been paying a bill. You have been making the effort to get this sorted. You personally are in the clear. Questions are going to get asked about your flats previous owners and those of the other flat. You have been paying the bill for the other flat as well as yours for the whole time you have been in your flat. They will want to know why your neighbours didn't think it strange that they weren't getting a bill for electricity.

OK, you now need to have a chat with EDF again and tell them what you have told us here. Just sit back and let EDF do the work. Remind them regularly that you have been paying a bill since you moved in. Make sure that you get the names and details of everybody at EDF you speak to. Write this down and make notes. Confirm any agreements in writing. When you have outlined the facts, follow this up in writing with a letter confirming what you have told them.

Remember again, you are trying to get this sorted so you are innocent. The previous owners (2005 era) are the ones that EDF will look for not you. It never hurts to play the non techie. Keep the "I thought it was a little strange" act up and it can't go wrong. You've proved that this is reality with your questions here.

Don't forget to keep us up-to-date on what is happening and the outcome.

Premier_2

How very strange!

I agree with others that it does appear that some unauthorised reqiring has probably taken place, and the suggestions as to how they say it should probably be.

But I'm not clear who would have been defrauded and/or by what amount? :huh:

The thing is all consumed electricity is being recorded. Normally an attempt at fraud would involving by-passing any/all meters. If you are going to tamper, you may as well go the whole hog and get the stuff for free wouldn't you?

The only cases I can see are:
1. If there is any daily standing charge accumulating which is obviously being avoided
2. If there is any debt on the PPM, but that would only have applied to a previous occupant anyway, but that wasn't being collected either.
3. The two meters may now belong to two different suppliers, (so one supplier may be upset that they are losing out to a comeptitor that is now supplying both properties without goiung through the official channels) but unless there was any debt on the PPM then they could have changed supplier anyway. Today even with £200 debt, a change in supplier would often be possible.

Yes, any tampering would be wrong in itself, but if that has happened, it does seem to be a lot of effort and risk for little or no material overall gain (unless one occupant just wanted to shaft their neighbour by paying for both lots of electricity and hope the neighbour didn't ever notice)

CandyBar_2

Premier wrote: »

How very strange!

I agree with others that it does appear that some unauthorised reqiring has probably taken place, and the suggestions as to how they say it should probably be.

But I'm not clear who would have been defrauded and/or by what amount? :huh:

The thing is all consumed electricity is being recorded. Normally an attempt at fraud would involving by-passing any/all meters. If you are going to tamper, you may as well go the whole hog and get the stuff for free wouldn't you?

The only cases I can see are:
1. If there is any daily standing charge accumulating which is obviously being avoided
2. If there is any debt on the PPM, but that would only have applied to a previous occupant anyway, but that wasn't being collected either.
3. The two meters may now belong to two different suppliers, (so one supplier may be upset that they are losing out to a comeptitor that is now supplying both properties without goiung through the official channels) but unless there was any debt on the PPM then they could have changed supplier anyway. Today even with £200 debt, a change in supplier would often be possible.

Yes, any tampering would be wrong in itself, but if that has happened, it does seem to be a lot of effort and risk for little or no material overall gain (unless one occupant just wanted to shaft their neighbour by paying for both lots of electricity and hope the neighbour didn't ever notice)

The material gain is due to the fact that until I moved in there was no record of this (credit) meter, so nobody was paying for the consumption on this meter.

wuckfit

The thing that immediately concerns me is that the prepayment meter bypass wire, which is the loose wire from Switch 1(Your Neighbour) to Switch 2 (You) looks woefully inadequate for the job. If you look at the cable coming out of the top of Switch 1 it's particularly thick by comparison. the flying lead from SW1 to SW2 looks to me like 30A ring main cable. This isn't enough to supply your entire flat. In fact I'd expect that it would get quite warm if you have a lot of things running.
In short, it's a safety and fire risk, and has been since the day it was installed.
(the tails coming from the meters only have one conductor in each, so they're rated much higher. the flat grey cables have 3 conductors each.)

First, Don't panic, as long as you're sensible. Now you know about the risk, you can be careful about not using too many electrical appliances at the same time until this is sorted.
If you panic and call an electrician the most likely scenario is that they'll take one look and remove that wire, leaving you without power until the Electricity Supplier sorts it out.
Unfortunately you also have the problem that your neighbour's meter is now associated with your address. that's going to be a bit of a headache to put right, dealing with the bureaucracy on that one.

CandyBar_2

wuckfit wrote: »

The thing that immediately concerns me is that the prepayment meter bypass wire, which is the loose wire from Switch 1(Your Neighbour) to Switch 2 (You) looks woefully inadequate for the job. If you look at the cable coming out of the top of Switch 1 it's particularly thick by comparison. the flying lead from SW1 to SW2 looks to me like 30A ring main cable. This isn't enough to supply your entire flat. In fact I'd expect that it would get quite warm if you have a lot of things running.
In short, it's a safety and fire risk, and has been since the day it was installed.
(the tails coming from the meters only have one conductor in each, so they're rated much higher. the flat grey cables have 3 conductors each.)

First, Don't panic, as long as you're sensible. Now you know about the risk, you can be careful about not using too many electrical appliances at the same time until this is sorted.
If you panic and call an electrician the most likely scenario is that they'll take one look and remove that wire, leaving you without power until the Electricity Supplier sorts it out.
Unfortunately you also have the problem that your neighbour's meter is now associated with your address. that's going to be a bit of a headache to put right, dealing with the bureaucracy on that one.

Thanks for pointing that out. As you say I really can't call an electrician and have this fixed, as I need everything to be sorted out with EDF and my neighbour before things can be put right. I'll try not to use too many appliances at once in the meantime.

wuckfit

Good plan. If you were to use a kettle, electric oven, tumble-drier, 3 bar heater, hair drier, iron etc all at once, I'd expect that cable to get a bit, well, melty.

Also you probably want to keep schtum about those 'power cuts' your neighbour's been having of late

Ultimately, what you want is that prepayment meter replaced with a credit meter and connected to switch 2, and that flying lead removed.

best of luck getting it all sorted.