My electricity meter is supplying two flats

Premier_2

CandyBar wrote: »

...OK, so if the property downstairs has a main meter (and not a sub-meter), this shouldn't be connected to my main meter. Shouldn't I therefore be looking to my supplier to refund me for the electricity which has been paid for twice?

A suppliers main meter should not be first going through another main meter.

I would be most surprised if it was.

If that is indeed the case, then the same electricity would have been charged twice and a refund would certainly be due somewhere.

However, at the start of this thread you were not even certain if the downstairs had a meter of their own, so to now assume they do and that it is not a sub-meter but also a main meter is quite a big assumption to make.

You would be best to start by talking to your neighbour and together establishing what is actually happening and then, if appropriate, calling your supplier(s) for help.

CandyBar_2

Premier wrote: »

A suppliers main meter should not be first going through another main meter.

I would be most surprised if it was.

If that is indeed the case, then the same electricity would have been charged twice and a refund would certainly be due somewhere.

However, at the start of this thread you were not even certain if the downstairs had a meter of their own, so to now assume they do and that it is not a sub-meter but also a main meter is quite a big assumption to make.

You would be best to start by talking to your neighbour and together establishing what is actually happening and then, if appropriate, calling your supplier(s) for help.

No I'm not certain but the managing agents for the flat downstairs tell me that the person living downstairs is with Southern Electric so I'm inclined to believe he does have a meter. IF he does have a meter AND is paying Southern Electric for it, I can't see how it can be anything but a main meter. But you're right, that's two assumptions. Of course I will ask my neighbour to see his meter this evening .

If it turns out that the flat downstairs doesn't have its own meter then I guess I have to deal with the owner of the flat downstairs, and have him pay me for the electricity used by his tenant. And then work something out for the future.

dunloadin

If it's wired up as you say then it looks like the flats have been connected in series, that or the prepayment meter has been bypassed using your supply!

When houses have been converted into flats it's not unusual for two meters to share the same incoming supply, is there two tails coming from the live side of the mains (the bit with the fuse in). If so one should go into your meter, the other to the other flats meter.

It is also possible (and likley) that if only one of the wires is common to both switches then this will be the neutral; which if shared will give the same effect you mention...an open circuit is an open circuit after all.

As theres doubt it would be a good idea to get in touch with your supplier and get them to check the meter(s) out.

Cardew

To add another complication!

What about water charges?

Are you metered? - Is the flat downstairs metered. If so do you both have water bills?

If not metered and on the old RV system, are you both paying a water bill?

macman

OP, it might help to clarify things if you post a link to some pics of the arrangements in the meter cupboard?

CandyBar_2

dunloadin wrote: »

If it's wired up as you say then it looks like the flats have been connected in series, that or the prepayment meter has been bypassed using your supply!

When houses have been converted into flats it's not unusual for two meters to share the same incoming supply, is there two tails coming from the live side of the mains (the bit with the fuse in). If so one should go into your meter, the other to the other flats meter.

It is also possible (and likley) that if only one of the wires is common to both switches then this will be the neutral; which if shared will give the same effect you mention...an open circuit is an open circuit after all.

As theres doubt it would be a good idea to get in touch with your supplier and get them to check the meter(s) out.

It's both wires, not just neutral.

To add another complication!

What about water charges?

Are you metered? - Is the flat downstairs metered. If so do you both have water bills?

If not metered and on the old RV system, are you both paying a water bill?

Not really sure but I have had a water meter fitted since I moved in and it is in my flat so I doubt this is an issue. I'll keep an eye on the meter though .

I'll take a photo when I get home, although given how badly it is wired you will probably find my diagram clearer . However it will show where these switches and meters are in relation to each other (and IIRC it will show that actually switch 2 is next to the prepayment meter, which lends credence to the theory that when the prepayment meter was disconnected someone changed the switch 2 connection).

I also got in touch with the owner of the downstairs flat (don't have the tenant's contact details), and he said he remembers "some problems establishing how to pay for the electricity" but "assumed that it had all been resolved". So I'm really going to have to talk to the tenant.

Edit: I also just remembered that EDF has sent a few letters addressed to "Estate Agents, Ground Floor Flat". I obviously don't know what these contained (I left them for my neighbour to deal with), but I'm curious.

Also, while I doubt this helps, this is what the meter itself looks like (this is not mine, but mine looks the same - same brand, type, and I think mine even says London Electricity Plc, but I'll check):

Electric meter by Carol B London, on Flickr

Ignite

OK, so meter goes into first switch. Can we see the rest of the wiring? other meter, all switches etc.

2 side points

1) EDIT YOUR PIC to remove the meter number.
2) The supply going into the meter is only 10mm2 cable. This is only rated upto 64 Amps (please correct me here someone). This as far as I know should be 16mm2. If this is supplying both flats then it is a little under rated.

CandyBar_2

Ignite wrote: »

OK, so meter goes into first switch. Can we see the rest of the wiring? other meter, all switches etc.

2 side points

1) EDIT YOUR PIC to remove the meter number.
2) The supply going into the meter is only 10mm2 cable. This is only rated upto 64 Amps (please correct me here someone). This as far as I know should be 16mm2. If this is supplying both flats then it is a little under rated.

This is not mine . I'll have pics of mine up soon...

CandyBar_2

Here we go:



I have spoken to EDF, who went digging into the records for the three or four meters they've had in this building. They apparently removed a meter in 2005, replaced it with the meter I have now, but because of an error in the recording of the serial numbers, lost track of it until I moved in. They also still have a record of the prepayment meter (above), and weren't aware that it had been disconnected (of course!). As to my problem, they said that I need an electrician to confirm that my meter is serving two properties, and then they will involve RPS (revenue protection services) and the police.

I also talked to my neighbour, who works long hours. He has no meter in his flat, he thought the one in the entrance was his. He told me that after he moved in (in 2006), he got so tired of dealing with EDF and them refusing to acknowledge that his meter existed that he just setup a direct debit with them and has been sending them £30/month ever since (?). He didn't seem to have any bills to show me, or letters confirming this, but he seemed confident that if this was queried, EDF would find a record of his payments. It all sounds a bit strange...

If a new meter were to be fitted, would it be up to the owners (both flats) to pay, or would EDF be responsible? I have heard that this can be quite expensive?

All EDF have said is that they will 'investigate' but as I now know there is only one meter, I urgently need a second meter fitted in order to split the consumption between the two flats.

System

To me it looks as though previous occupants of your flat have bypassed their pre-pay meter and wired directly into the other flat.