Tenants left owing me rent and the want to take ME to court

puddy

and if they do get professional advice, they'll be told exactly what we are telling you

MacDrumm

macman wrote: »

Why did you allow them to move in without signing their contract first? If they refused to sign it then they cannot expect any protection under it. From what you have said it seems that they are not legal tenants anyway, if there is no independent accomodation.
What is the arrangement for Council Tax on this property?
If rent is owed then you deduct that from the deposit, along with any damages, that's the whole point of holding a deposit, as least from the landlord's point of view.

Naively, I didn't think it would be a problem them not signing it at the time. They actually only raised one objection in that I had the minimum rental term as 3 months and she said she didn't want to agree to that, so as they never raised any other concerns, does that meant verbally they agreed to it?

First they wanted 3 months notice, then they left after 10 days stating I was legally bound to give them 2 months notice and now they are stating, frequently, that they didn't sign the agreement in the first place.

So if there is no agreement, what rights do they have that I have apparently violated?

As for council tax, that's in my name - all bills were included in the rent for the tenants.

theartfullodger

FATBALLZ wrote: »

And for future reference you can't hold somebody to the terms of a contract they didn't actually sign.

Err. no, but an unwritten contract is always harder to enforce....

However there are many cases where LL/Tenant disputes without a written contract have gone to court & Judge's decisions handed down...


Cheers!

Artful

puddy

MacDrumm wrote: »

Naively, I didn't think it would be a problem them not signing it at the time. They actually only raised one objection in that I had the minimum rental term as 3 months and she said she didn't want to agree to that, so as they never raised any other concerns, does that meant verbally they agreed to it?

First they wanted 3 months notice, then they left after 10 days stating I was legally bound to give them 2 months notice and now they are stating, frequently, that they didn't sign the agreement in the first place.

So if there is no agreement, what rights do they have that I have apparently violated?

As for council tax, that's in my name - all bills were included in the rent for the tenants.

the LODGERS

macman

As already advised, they are clearly not tenants. They are lodgers and they have no legal rights whatsoever. The fact that you are paying all the CT for the property reinforces that.
So they expect you to give them 3m notice but they only gave you 10 days?
Retain the deposit, and I would charge them 30 days rent from the date they gave written notice, and live with the loss of £100.
If they take legal advice then they will be told they are wasting their time and money.
As others have emphasized, you can't have a landlord/tenant dispute if there is no tenancy.

FATBALLZ

theartfullodger wrote: »

Err. no, but an unwritten contract is always harder to enforce....

However there are many cases where LL/Tenant disputes without a written contract have gone to court & Judge's decisions handed down...


Cheers!

Artful

Ok I'll give you that one, but I was talking in the practical sense rather than purist legal sense, I'm aware you don't need to physically sign a contract to agree to it, for example in car parks you agree to the contract on the big signs as you drive in, however in this context, if you don't get them to sign it in all probability you'll have no hope of enforcing any of it. If it went to court you could well bring out a contract saying 'they didn't sign this but these are the terms', but the lodger could just bring out a contract saying 'the landlord didn't sign this but it says here they agree to pay me £5k if I am evicted'.

Doozergirl

FATBALLZ wrote: »

Ok I'll give you that one, but I was talking in the practical sense rather than purist legal sense, I'm aware you don't need to physically sign a contract to agree to it, for example in car parks you agree to the contract on the big signs as you drive in'.

No you don't. There is no contract with PPCs there either. They will tell you there is but there isn't.

gauly

I thought a lodger didn't have to give much/any notice - maybe a week? So, I'm not sure that you can expect to get 30 days rent out of them. Either they are a tenant, in which case you are wrong and should have given them 2 months notice, or, as seems more likely, they are lodgers and you should probably refund them all but one weeks rent.

MacDrumm

gauly wrote: »

I thought a lodger didn't have to give much/any notice - maybe a week? So, I'm not sure that you can expect to get 30 days rent out of them. Either they are a tenant, in which case you are wrong and should have given them 2 months notice, or, as seems more likely, they are lodgers and you should probably refund them all but one weeks rent.

Lodgers' notice appears to be based on how they pay rent. If it's monthly they need to give a months notice, if it's weekly, then the same.

Unless I'm wrong?

bristol_pilot

If the landlord lives on the premises, then the renters are USUALLY considered lodgers, but can be considered tenants in certain circumstances. I once successfully sued my landlord (I lived in his house) for non-return of deposit and proved to the satisfaction of the court that it was a tenancy. There was an agreement headed 'tenancy agreement' signed by both parties, rent was paid monthly and the landlord had taken a months deposit against breakages and non-payment of rent. This was enough for the judge to agree that a tenancy had been created.