Tenants left owing me rent and the want to take ME to court

MacDrumm

I have rented a house for the last 2 years and in that time have always sublet the other rooms (with LL consent), and up until recently have had no problems. I am leaving the property for something smaller so I recently gave all the current tenants a months notice, and also the landlord. Everyone is fine with this apart from one couple.

At first, they said that I should be giving them 3 months notice, even though the agreement I gave them when they moved in stated that either the LL or the tenants can give one months notice at any point.
I referred back to that agreement and they stated that they didn't actually sign it (which is true), but I was told that as they didn't contest it at the time, they entered into a verbal contract for those the terms laid out in the agreement, especially as they had lived in the room and paid rent every month for over 6 months.

10 days into the notice period, they told me they were leaving that day and that they wanted their deposit back. I pointed out to them that the rent still owed for the rest of that month was still due and that the deposit didn't cover that, therefore I would not be returning it.

They stated that, after looking into it, I should have given them 2 months notice. Again I referred to the original agreement, again they said they didn't sign it so I asked them if they had anything in writing from me saying 2 months notice was required, which obviously they do not.

They refused to return the keys and left, stating I can have them back when I return the deposit. I gave them until 5 pm the following day to return the keys or I would have to change the locks and charge them for this, plus extra keys for the other tenants.
They didn't do this and the next day I get a letter threatening me with court action, stating that as their deposit is not in the secure deposit scheme, they can take me to court and get back 3 times the amount of the deposit. My deposit for the whole house is in a protected scheme, but I was told that I didn't need to put people who sub let my rooms deposit in a scheme.

Obviously I'm a bit annoyed as I was under the impression I had done everything by they book. I live in the property, and although the couple were annoying to live with, damaging some kitchen items through burning food all the time, I never treated them any different than the other tenants I didn't have problems with. When they moved in, I held the room for them for an extra week while they sorted out moving in, which was in the middle of the month. After a few months I moved their rent due date to the 1st, and one of their arguments is that I am only allowed to give notice from and to the rent due date.

I feel I have a case and was just wondering if anyone could give advice or similar experiences to see how best to deal with this. They moved out leaving me 3 weeks rent short and the deposit is £100 less than that amount. Just seems a joke them threatening me with legal action when they left without proper notice.

I have an appointment with a solicitor this week but obviously if I can avoid paying out for letters etc and fight my own case I would prefer that.

PasturesNew

They are lodgers, not tenants. They have no notice in law, you could kick their sorry 4rses out the door any time you wanted to.

The "laws" they are referring to are for tenants - where they would have self-contained accommodation (not sharing with you, as your lodger).

There is no TDS for your situation. There is no 3x deposit for them.

They are mad. They are wrong.

No need for a solicitor.

PasturesNew

My best advice is: pocket their deposit, ignore their letters. Get on with your life.

spirit

I concur 100% with PasturesNew's advice.

Save your money, you don't need to go to a solicitor.

I assume they signed a 'Licence to Occupy' rather than a tenancy agreement. You will have signed a tenancy agreement with your landlord and as PN says, you have your deposit in the protected scheme.

It's funny (odd) how lodgers sometimes get a bit sniffy about the deposit. I've had it happen that someone wanted their deposit back when a) rent not up to date and b) wanted it before they left so they could give it to their new LL.

Tell them they can whistle for it and you might just say to them that you'll be looking forward to receiving a reference request from their new LL :rotfl:

MacDrumm

I thought they might be considered as lodgers, but because there are other tenants in the house, they could be tenants. They didn't sign anything, which could turn out in my favour as on the agreement they were referred to as tenants, but as they didn't sign it (which they so proudly keep pointing out), does that make them lodgers by default?

Just !!!!es me off as I was so accommodating to them in the first place. Let them have virgin cable for free, even getting sky sports for them as he's a health/sports nut.

theartfullodger

PasturesNew wrote: »

They are lodgers, not tenants. They have no notice in law, you could kick their sorry 4rses out the door any time you wanted to.

err.. not quite... see...
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/private_tenancies/excluded_occupiers#1

As an excluded occupier your only right is to stay until your landlord asks you to go, or for as long as your written agreement says. Your landlord can evict you by giving you reasonable notice (which can be verbal) and doesn't need a court order.

& note these cases.. the amounts are what it cost the Landlord when it got to court...

O4.9 Nwokorie v Mason (1994) CoA £4,500.00 Housing Law casebook
Occupied a room in shared house, residential Landlord, evicted with no Court Order
O4.12 Tagro v Cafane and Patel 1991 CoA £46,538.00 Housing Law casebook
Tenant had one of 4 bed-sitting rooms, serious harassment/eviction

A resident Landlord would be well advised always to use a written notice delivered in front of witness giving "reasonable" notice - some say 28 days.. Feel free to ignore this advice, and please re-post the results of your court case..

Cheers!

Artful

puddy

a month is more than reasonable, they are definately not tenants, they are lodgers, so the issue about the deposit etc is void

FATBALLZ

And for future reference you can't hold somebody to the terms of a contract they didn't actually sign.

MacDrumm

FATBALLZ wrote: »

And for future reference you can't hold somebody to the terms of a contract they didn't actually sign.

So where do i stand if they didn't have a signed written contract?
Luckily they have left so its not a case of getting them evicted, they simply left early owing me rent and insist by law I need to give them their deposit back.

macman

Why did you allow them to move in without signing their contract first? If they refused to sign it then they cannot expect any protection under it. From what you have said it seems that they are not legal tenants anyway, if there is no independent accomodation.
What is the arrangement for Council Tax on this property?
If rent is owed then you deduct that from the deposit, along with any damages, that's the whole point of holding a deposit, as least from the landlord's point of view.

BitterAndTwisted

Ignore them. You'll be moving soon and even if they have the funds to get professional advice (which may cost them more than any deposit they think they are owed) they will have to find you first.