Angrywith the RSPCA/Council dog wardens

pboae

I wouldn't want to follow America's lead on anything to do with animal welfare. We've got a major problem with dogs dying in pounds here, but it is nothing compared to the problems they've got. Prong collars, 'invisible' fences (i.e. electric shock collars) and choke chains are still the main training tools. Dogs are still debarked and cats declawed. Even the AKC are about to throw their hats in with one of the biggest pet shop chains (stocked from puppy farms of course).

The rotties in that case were guard dogs, and it's not comparable to pet dogs. Accidents happen, but some are more preventable than others.

I would love to see ALL dogs properly licensed and insured, not just ones of a certain size or breed. I don't believe breed specific laws are helpful. Idiots who want dogs for the wrong reasons will just move to another breed. I'd also like to see some serious controls on breeding, with an end to puppy farms and breeders being forced to take responsibility for every puppy they ever produce (as reputable breeders already do).

MortgageMamma

pbradley936 wrote:

We are obviously animal lovers on this thread so what do you think about the two dogs that killed a baby in a pub the other day? I think that dogs over a certain size should be licenced. That system works really well in parts of the USA and they have it because of insurance. There is no NHS so if your dog bites someone you pay the medical bill , well your house insurance does but not if your pet weighs more than 25lb. So you can have a cat, bird or a small dog under an ordinary insurance policy but if you want a bigger dog you have to pay more. I get so upset when idiots buy large dogs with a guarding instinct and do not give them the care and attention they need. The poor dogs always end up being put down.

I heard this on the radio the other day when I was driving and had to pull over, I was nearly sick. Being a mothr of three and a dog owner the situation hit hard home - but why is it we always hear about rottweilers attacking kiddies and not other breeds? surely it can';t just be rottweiler

I'm no expert on this by any means, but I would like to see something in place whereby dogs that are known to be highly strung/dangerous/have guard dog qualities must never be let near children. Was it the dog owners child that was ripped to bits or someone elses?

pboae

From the press reports, it seems they were guard dogs, kept on the flat roof of the pub. The baby's parents were minding the pub, while the owners were away. A fire door got accidentally left open, the dogs got in and threw the baby round like a toy.

Obviously bigger dogs can do more damage, but labradors, retrievers and terriers all feature on the (American) statistics as having 'above average' numbers of bites. Of course, that will be skewed because those breeds are very popular with families because they are supposed to have child friendly temprements. I mean, if 1000 families have labradors and 1% bite and only 10 families have a Black Russian Terrier but 60% bite, on the stats you'll have 10 lab bites and 6 BRT bites. But I know which breed I'd rather have with kids.

MortgageMamma

What breed is that then? I have two very young miniature schnauzers, strudel and blizzard, and they are fantastic with my kids, and the perfect size for house/family dogs

In fact the youngest one (blizzard, a black one, 5 months) is like a big cuddly teddy bear and sleeps with my 2 1/2 year old son every night at the foot of his bed!

pboae

The BRT is loosely based on the giant schnauzer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Russian_Terrier they were bred by the government in the USSR as guard dogs.

They aren't all aggressive these days, in some lines it has been bred out very successfully, but they were never meant to be pet dogs, and in the hands of an unscrupulous breeder they can be a disaster waiting to happen.

I have a St. Bernard who was terribly abused and neglected by his original owners. They have a reputation for being absolute softies, but I would never trust him to be on his own with small children. He is too easily spooked (and frankly too badly damaged, physically and mentally). Yet on walks we meet so many stupid stupid people. Parents who let toddlers run up to him (on their own!) and fling their arms around his neck, or try to sit their kids on his back for a ride, when it is blatantly obvious he had trouble walking as it is. Luckily he can cope with those things as long as I react quickly to put a stop to it. But I find it staggering that parents let their children behave like that around a strange dog that is many times the size of the child. I've had many a bloody nose off him giving me a 'friendly' head butt, and currently look like I've done a round with Freddy Kreuger after he caught my arm in a mis-timed 'give paw'.

But then in years past I had a couple of nasty run ins with my gran's yorkshire terrier, jeez I was scared of that dog! So size really isn't everything!

Contains_Mild_Peril

MortgageMamma wrote:

I know this sounds like a stupid question but are you not worried about bird flu? I won't let my kids pick up a feather or anyting at the moment. Glad the birdies alright though - I used to do stuff like that as a kid, but my mum and dad drew the line when I brought home an injured frog!

I'm not overly worried about bird flu, since there was only one isolated case of an infected bird found in Scotland several months ago, and afaik the only cases of human infection have been in parts of the world where it has reached epidemic levels amongst birds. We did wash our hands after handling it of course, but that's common sense with wildlife casualties in any case.

Mrs_pbradley936

pboae wrote:

But then in years past I had a couple of nasty run ins with my gran's yorkshire terrier, jeez I was scared of that dog! So size really isn't everything!

I know that you can get lovable large dogs but the point about size is that many adults could tackle a Yorkie or something similar if it attacked someone. I am not sure they could successfully take on a Doberman in the same circumstances. The Dangerous Dogs Act of a few years ago caused problems because of definition of a breed "Is it a Pit Bull or is it a Staffie?" etc. Anyone could check the weight of a dog and if you want to own a big dog I think you should prove that you are suitable and know the consequences of owning something potentially harmful to people.

Mrs_pbradley936

pboae wrote:

I wouldn't want to follow America's lead on anything to do with animal welfare. .

The house insurance element for pets is not an animal welfare aim. It is to indemnify the home owner in the event that their pet causes nuisance or damage to a third party. Several years ago there was a huge court case in the US about a woman who was attacked by a couple of large dogs in the hallway of her block of apartments. The woman died of shock rather than the injuries inflicted by the dogs, there was a big whoo haa about the insurance and who should pay any medical bills and compensation to the family.

Asher

pboae wrote:

Parents who let toddlers run up to him (on their own!) and fling their arms around his neck, or try to sit their kids on his back for a ride, when it is blatantly obvious he had trouble walking as it is. Luckily he can cope with those things as long as I react quickly to put a stop to it. But I find it staggering that parents let their children behave like that around a strange dog that is many times the size of the child. I've had many a bloody nose off him giving me a 'friendly' head butt, and currently look like I've done a round with Freddy Kreuger after he caught my arm in a mis-timed 'give paw'.

But then in years past I had a couple of nasty run ins with my gran's yorkshire terrier, jeez I was scared of that dog! So size really isn't everything!

If your dog cannot be trusted in a public place where toddlers might run to him you should not take him there. A child has more rights to enjoy public places than a dog. I agree with you that adults should be more aware but in many cases they are not.

wickychoo

Asher wrote:

If your dog cannot be trusted in a public place where toddlers might run to him you should not take him there. A child has more rights to enjoy public places than a dog. I agree with you that adults should be more aware but in many cases they are not.

The whole point of public spaces are that they are PUBLIC, should people wish to take their dogs there they have the same rights as people who wish to take their children there.

Dogs and children are inherantly similar in that they can both be well trained and well mannered, or be nasty depending on the care and training they have recieved from their parents/owners.