Warm Air Gas Heating Replacement

gab1

I have Johnson and Starley warm air heating with a Janus water heater heating a tank of water for hot water, no electric immersion, so all water heated by gas.

I am quite happy with the warm air heating but the hot water seems wasteful to me as it has a pilot light that is on all the time and there is no timer or anything to control the hot water other than knob in the unit to set the water temperature, or turn it off fully.

No automation there.

To find out how much gas the pilot light was using I turned down the knob for a day so when hot water was being used the main burner did not burn and calculated that it was using 4 kWh of gas a day which works out at my gas prices of £45 per year.

Now I realise that this is not a fortune for the convenience of continuous hot water, so I just pay it. But if it could be eliminated?

I have calculated that it costs me about £200 per year for hot water, including the pilot light, and £250 + per year for heating with probably £30 for the heating pilot light being on for 8 months of the year.

These prices are based on my online tariff inclusive of discounts.

The last gas bill was £450 for the year.

So £75 per year for pilot lights out of a £450 gas bill which if my calculation is correct is about 17%

The heating unit is coming up for replacement according to BG but I am keeping it until they condemn it.

It is, I think, at risk, I can't find the last service report, one stage before being condemned and it is 20 years old.

I am looking into alternatives and replacements and I was wondering if a replacement warm air heating unit and Janus water heater still used pilot lights?

Also if I fitted an immersion heater to my hot water tank and used that instead of gas to heat my hot water and replaced my power shower using gas heated water with a 10 kWh electric shower.

Would an immersion heater and electric shower cost less than my present setup to run?

I was thinking of replacing the heating with a combi boiler and radiators but when I see my neighbours' houses where they have done this it restricts where they can put their furniture and not one of them has said that they are actually using less gas than before.

They have also increased their insulation so it would seem that they are now using, in real terms, more gas than before, because if they are using the same gas with increased insulation than with the warm air heating, radiators and a combi boiler are using more gas.

So my dilemma is,

to replace like for like with improved efficiency, if there are no pilot lights, immediate 17% saving, stored hot water and warm air by gas

heat the house using radiators and have hot water heated by gas combi boiler and no storage tank.

Would probably cost the same as previous system going by what the neighbours tell me.

heat the house using warm air heating and have hot water heated by electricity, mostly on demand using an electric shower and a kettle for dishwashing etc. and an immersion for the unlikely purpose if I or my OH decide to have a bath.

Does anyone know if the new warm air heating units and Janus water heaters use a pilot light?

and has anyone recently replaced their old warm air heating with new modern warm air heating? and did they use less gas?

to put into context my questions,

in my last house I had an open coal fire to heat the house and supply hot water, an immersion in the summer and electric fires and oil filled radiators all over the place and no gas or central heating.

GTG

I would suggest you get advice from the horses mouth here or you may well find the answers you are looking for on their webby. You will see that ironically our boilers are excluded from the boiler scrappage scheme but J&S have their own £300 scrappage scheme.

I have J&S warm air heating only - I have a separate wall mounted gas water heater - the warm air heater is about 40 years old now and all I have ever needed is a new programming clock fitted. It is located in a second home which has only been used ocassionally for the past 5 years but used as a main residence before that.The old manual type i.e. not digital, the system is simplicity it's self. The problem these days is that most things involve complicated electronics and faults usually occur in badly designed circuit boards. I've just had to replace a PCB (printed circuit board) in a conventional Potterton boiler they did have noteriety for these faults in boilers manufactured a few years ago. This boiler is in my main residence.

I have resigned myself to the fact that replacement of the J&S is imminent so I will be using the webpage mentioned myself when I get around to it. I'm thinking of perhaps adding their hot water system and doing away with my separate gas water heater so your findings would obviously be of interest to me. If your willing to share I'd appreciate it. Good luck with your reasearch.

bengasman

In a nutshell, your pilot does not cost 17% of the gasbill, but new systems are more economical.

Warm air systems are terrible for a number of technical reasons. The new ones are a bit better, but I wouldn't have one for free.

Electricity is roughly 4 times more expensive per kW than gas, so nothing to be gained there.

As for the scrapage scheme: J&S set the price of their own product. If they then give you £xxx from their own money for whatever scheme, it is just the same as giving a "discount" of 20%. It doesn't mean much if you charge 30% too much in the first place.

In reality, their is no scrapage scheme other than the "band-g boiler" scheme from the government. The rest is just marketing to mislead people into believing they get a better deal. There is one way to expose these "schemes" for what they are: scams. Simply compare the price you are actually paying by the time it is installed, up and running between the companies with the "discounts" and those that just give you a quote. The ones without all the fancy sales talk tend to be less expensive, even without scrappage schemes, special discounts, and all the other nonsense.

Let's face it, why would anyone want to have your old heater, other than the scrap man?

bengasman

GTG wrote: »

I would suggest you get advice from the horses mouth here ....

One downside of getting advice from the "experts" here. As their main product is the warm air heater, it is a bit unlikely they will tell you to go to Viessmann or Bosch to buy one of their products.

If you want good and unbiased advice, ask friends and neighbours for a recommended independent installer, and let him advise you.

GTG

bengasman wrote: »

One downside of getting advice from the "experts" here. As their main product is the warm air heater, it is a bit unlikely they will tell you to go to Viessmann or Bosch to buy one of their products.

If you want good and unbiased advice, ask friends and neighbours for a recommended independent installer, and let him advise you.

This was the bit of gab1's post my comment was aimed at:

I am looking into alternatives and replacements and I was wondering if a replacement warm air heating unit and Janus water heater still used pilot lights?

If you have to tell someone that a supplier/seller of one particular product or brand is not going to recommend another product or brand then I really do think there is a high probability that you underestimating the intelligence of that person.

gab1

In a nutshell, your pilot does not cost 17% of the gasbill

Perhaps you could tell me what percentage of my gas bill my pilot light uses then, as I thought I had calculated that out in excel?

£450 gas bill, when hot water pilot light left on accidently while on holiday it used 4 kWh per day = 1460 per year cost 1465 times .03p = £43.80

Heating pilot light is a separate pilot light and my heating is on for 8 months so 8 times 31 days = 248 days at 4 kWh = 992 times .03p = £29.76 plus £43.80 total = £73.56

According to excel 17% of £450 is £76.50 so maybe not 17% exactly but it is more than 16% and less than 17% but who wants to quibble over less than 1%?

And the pilot light for the heating has a bigger flame than the pilot light for the hot water so it probably uses more than 4 kWh a day anyway.

All my calculations tell me that my warm air heating is more efficient than a boiler and radiators so why does everyone tell me I would save money by ripping it out and installing a boiler and radiators rather than replacing like for more efficient like?

When British Gas come to do it's yearly service and most likely the engineer will tell me once again how crap it is and should be ripped out I want figures that will prove he is talking a load of rubbish.

gab1

I got a reply from Johnson and Starley and they still use pilot lights.

Speaking of which I must go and light it as it is getting cold.

I wonder if it will still work.

GTG

gab1 wrote: »

I got a reply from Johnson and Starley and they still use pilot lights.

Speaking of which I must go and light it as it is getting cold.

I wonder if it will still work.

That's crazy in this day and age, are you sure... most boilers have electronic on demand ignition systems!

Teena_Lazaridis

Help! I have a 10 year old Janstar wall mounted warm air heater by Johnson Starley. I urgently need an experienced engineer to repair it.
JS tell me that this unit is not replaceable new units floor mounted only. As mine is located in the kitchen it would mean new kitchen etc
I am now desperate. Can any body make any suggestion for a solution? I am located in Ealing London. Does any other manufacturer make some thing similar?
Teena.

Lgas

Modern warm air units do have electronic on-demand ignition. I have worked on a J&S economaire and can confirm this, plus the modern units have room sealed flues, far safer! They aren't brilliant, compared to convential gas boilers, but cost wise I can see why you wouldn't want to replace your WAU rather than facing the huge cost of installing a wet central heating system. I believe the modern versions are a fair bit more efficient, especially if you opt for the comfort controls (room stat etc).

McKneff

I have J & S warm air heating and I think its brilliant, instant warmth, very rarely use the water boiler, now and again for a bath.
(just to add I shower daily:D) wouldnt swap it.