Who Pays fine

AlexisV

KKeller wrote: »

Who are you to say that I don't give a damn? All I merely asked was who was obliged to pay the fine, so don't jump to conclusions when you in fact don't have all the information at your disposal to come up with a statement like that.

Yes, the morally right thing to do is pay the fine, which is exactly what I did. Like I said before, all i was doing was finding out who the burden falls on.

As is often the case in these threads, some people muddy the waters between the law and morals. They are not always one and the same!

You would have been legally entitled not to pay the fine. The moral aspect is up to you.

vikingaero

AlexisV wrote: »

As is often the case in these threads, some people muddy the waters between the law and morals. They are not always one and the same!

You would have been legally entitled not to pay the fine. The moral aspect is up to you.

In that case then I would hope that the OP never passes their driving test and brings their suspect morals onto the roads. Skank out of this and they'll do anything to skank out of other incidents.

DaveF327

KKeller wrote: »

Who are you to say that I don't give a damn?

That conclusion was drawn from your statement

KKeller wrote: »

I have no intention of sticking with the same instructor.

You wouldn't be asking on a money saving website whether you're obliged to pay anything if you weren't deliberating whether to pay or not. It appeared that you were trying to avoid recompensing your instructor, then you go on to say that you're not even going to give him any more custom.

When I worked in the industry, I experienced total apathy from certain pupils whose cheques / debit cards would bounce, then would conveniently disappear off the face of the earth. Blow 1: evading payment, Blow 2: abruptly withholding further business without notice. Self-employed people are struggling enough without the apathy of "customers" who ruin their business without giving a damn. Your case sounded extremely similar, with the small difference of causing an initial financial loss to him by another means.

Your question mentioned "obliged" without reference to "legally" or "morally". Both interpretations of this have now been answered. I'm glad to hear that you actually paid the fine. I wish you success with your next test.

david39

The OP (in post 29) has already said that she has paid the fine and was asking the question purely out of acedemic interest.

keystone

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Nope, this point has already been answered by DaveF327 a couple of posts above yours.

Thanks - missed that!

Cheers

ginnersinner

Can't believe you're even asking the question. Who else could possibly be liable except you? The bus-lane contravention, although enforced by the Council, is a contravention of the criminal law (albeit minor) in the same way as going through a red light or speeding. Would you expect your instructor to cop the three points for you doing 45 in a 30 on your test?

Never heard a question so ridiculous!!

Coupon-mad

ginnersinner wrote: »

Can't believe you're even asking the question. Who else could possibly be liable except you? The bus-lane contravention, although enforced by the Council, is a contravention of the criminal law (albeit minor) in the same way as going through a red light or speeding. !

No, it's not a contravention of criminal law.

We've already said that a bus lane PCN is 'merely' a contravention of a Council Traffic Order. Not criminal at all, Council only run the parking in decriminalised areas.

And we've already said that in fact the owner is responsible (unlike with speeding or red light offences where the driver is responsible and the Police issue the FPN).

But morally I think we all agreed the driver should appeal or pay, and he did the latter.

TheBogsDollocks

The OP must have better morals than me as I would not have paid unless I had been made fully aware by the driving instructor when I commenced lessons that I would be considered liable for any traffic penalty charges. I would then have the choice to accept or go elsewhere.

In my view it is a matter of fact and degree. An experienced driver such as an instructor will be aware that entering a bus lane is a contravention while a novice driver may not. If at no time the novice driver is told that you must not drive in a bus lane and if you do then you pay the penalty then I do not think it morally wrong to turn around and say no I'm not paying.

If you went overdrawn at the bank and the bank charged you £70 for doing so but never actually told you about the possibility of such a charge you would not be happy and in my view this is not much different.

Fergie76

TheBogsDollocks wrote: »

The OP must have better morals than me as I would not have paid unless I had been made fully aware by the driving instructor when I commenced lessons that I would be considered liable for any traffic penalty charges. I would then have the choice to accept or go elsewhere.

In my view it is a matter of fact and degree. An experienced driver such as an instructor will be aware that entering a bus lane is a contravention while a novice driver may not. If at no time the novice driver is told that you must not drive in a bus lane and if you do then you pay the penalty then I do not think it morally wrong to turn around and say no I'm not paying.

If you went overdrawn at the bank and the bank charged you £70 for doing so but never actually told you about the possibility of such a charge you would not be happy and in my view this is not much different.

How about accepting some personal responsibility and reading the highway code, prior to taking lessons. Ignorance is not a defence!

TheBogsDollocks

Fergie76 wrote: »

How about accepting some personal responsibility and reading the highway code, prior to taking lessons. Ignorance is not a defence!

The law is a defence and the law says the OP need not have paid. Our personal views matter not a jot.